** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[pete75]

The UK should concentrate on making high added value products and services. Computer software and tools is a good example.

Al

Why? Germany seems to work well on a full range of products and services. A lot of the cheap stuff like hosepipes sold at Lidl are made in Germany and then they have the likes of Bosch,Siemens, SAP and Daimler AG etc. The high level technology companies keep quite a bit of their manufacturing in Germany as well, unlike say Dyson who make most of their stuff in third world countries.
It's all very well to say high level research and development can be a very profitable line of business but to be successful, rather than just money making, a nations economy needs to provide a full range of jobs for people of all levels of intellect and education.

[roubaixtuesday]

whilst for the UK it's all about "profit", "wealth", "money", etc., for the EU it is more about community, working together, mutual cooperation, etc..

I agree there is a different perspective, a different national story if you like.

The UK has a national story that we stood alone against tyranny; that we are special, and won.

Everyone else in Europe has a story that *everybody* lost, and an absolute determination not to let it happen again.

Cycling through the France/Belgium border a couple of years ago really brought this home to me. The war memorials. The massacres. And then, the old customs house, with cartoon models of border guards erected within, a parody of what life used to be and a celebration of how much better things are now.

Whilst I agree with the economic arguments for Remain (in my view they are absolutely irrefutable), I think the community argument is actually much more powerful, and I would have voted Remain regardless of the economics.

We take for granted our peace and democracy. Brexit imperils this much-underrated stability. The Ukraine tells a salutory story of what may be yet to come.

[mjr]

I don't get the whole EU 'free trade' thing. It's not free trade, the cost of trading is in the amount a country pays and how and where subsidies it receives are applied along with employment rules etc etc.

Free as in liberal, not as in cost. I'm not wild on the term either, because ultimately companies only exist because of legislation (and partnerships only because of that particular branch of contract law), so if you were to completely liberalise/deregulate the market, only sole traders would still exist and the company chiefs who prattle on calling for "free" trade really don't want that.

By the way, folks, watch Davos this week, not Brexit. 11 years ago, I described the World Economic Forum as "where corporations tell governments how to control their electors to benefit businesses. That's the wrong way round."

[mikeonabike]

The UK has a national story that we stood alone against tyranny; that we are special, and won.

Everyone else in Europe has a story that *everybody* lost, and an absolute determination not to let it happen again.

.

Just to add to this, of course the Republic of Ireland also has a national story that they stood alone against tyranny and won. 1916 and all that. But the Irish seem happy to look forward and recognise that it makes sense to have close economic ties with us and the rest of Europe, freedom of movement etc.

[PDQ Mobile]

Meirionydd voted to remain!!

[irc]

But the Irish seem happy to look forward and recognise that it makes sense to have close economic ties with us and the rest of Europe, freedom of movement etc.

Who doesn't think close economic ties are a good idea? The only people suggesting trade barriers post Brexit are the EU.

As for freedom of movement? Depends where the line is drawn. With the EU it is EU wide. Discriminating against the rest of the world? Personally I think freedom of movement in the UK combi8ned with controlled immigration is best. Just like the system in almost every other country outside the EU.

[mjr]

Personally I think freedom of movement in the UK combi8ned with controlled immigration is best.

You might think that, but you're a heck of a lot further away from a border. Most borders were drawn a long time ago by kings and dictators and don't make much sense as hard divisions in a more democratic world. Why not make Strathclyde's borders a hard border and limit freedom of movement even more?

[mikeonabike]

Who doesn't think close economic ties are a good idea? The only people suggesting trade barriers post Brexit are the EU.

Well our prime minister for a start. She's just decided to leave the single market didn't you notice.

[blackbike]

Personally I think freedom of movement in the UK combi8ned with controlled immigration is best.

You might think that, but you're a heck of a lot further away from a border. Most borders were drawn a long time ago by kings and dictators and don't make much sense as hard divisions in a more democratic world. Why not make Strathclyde's borders a hard border and limit freedom of movement even more?

The EU itself has border controls and restricts immigration into the bloc.

It is not some wonderfully liberal and cosmopolitan group which welcomes everyone in to live and work. It is a protectionist organisation founded on the principle of mutual self-interest for a small minority of people in the world.

When we leave the EU can carry on with its current protectionism on trade and immigration, and we can be like most other countries in controlling our own borders and immigration, and negotiating our own trade agreements.

The future's bright, the future's Brexit.

[mikeonabike]

blackbike, you seem to think that it would be good for the UK not to be a protectionist organisation that doesn't welcome everyone in to live and work, while also thinking that the UK should control immigration.

In which case, let us remember the famous saying that ""The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function." And let us be thankful that the UK is in the hands of such first class minds.

PS has the other half been deported yet?

[pete75]

Life in a post Brexit,anti expert and anti foreigner Britain.

[Cyril Haearn]

The UK should concentrate on making high added value products and services. Computer software and tools is a good example.

Al

Why? Germany seems to work well on a full range of products and services. A lot of the cheap stuff like hosepipes sold at Lidl are made in Germany and then they have the likes of Bosch,Siemens, SAP and Daimler AG etc. The high level technology companies keep quite a bit of their manufacturing in Germany as well, unlike say Dyson who make most of their stuff in third world countries.
It's all very well to say high level research and development can be a very profitable line of business but to be successful, rather than just money making, a nations economy needs to provide a full range of jobs for people of all levels of intellect and education.

Indeed. Many German firms moved the production to cheap countries and quietly brought it home a few years later,if the experiment had not led to bankruptcy.

So much work is done by elaborate expensive machines now,the labour costs are often relatively small. And Germany has centuries of manufacturing in the DNA of the people (Cuckoo clocks for example or wristwatch production, tiny intricate machines that sell for €100.000), that is not to be sniffed at.

[Cyril Haearn]

Life in a post Brexit,anti expert and anti foreigner Britain.

We know all that, Orwell described it in 1948. Time for a binding second referendum now that so much has been thought and written!

[irc]

Who doesn't think close economic ties are a good idea? The only people suggesting trade barriers post Brexit are the EU.

Well our prime minister for a start. She's just decided to leave the single market didn't you notice.

And she explained why. Nothing to do with trade.

[landsurfer]

We know all that, Orwell described it in 1948. Time for a binding second referendum now that so much has been thought and written!

But what happens if the country votes leave again ...... another binding referendum, best of 5 maybe ......
Wee Jimmy Krankie and her cohorts seem to be getting nervous about an another independence referendum for Scotland .....
Referendums Eh! ..... nothing but trouble ....