Hybrid cars

[Mick F]

Our Clio is ten years old next month. We've had it since new and are very happy with it. In the ten years, we've done 75,000 very nice powerful and comfortable miles. The car won't last forever, but it has a few years more life in it yet.

However, my head has been turned by the Toyota Auris - made in UK.

1.8L vvt engine with battery powered electric motor as well. 111mph, 78mpg, 0 to 60 in 11secs. Trouble is, it costs £20,000.

I did a bit of a calculation:
80,000 miles in ten years @ approx 35mpg (most of our driving is local mileage, though it will return 50mpg on the motorway if driven gently) means our Clio has consumed 10,400ltrs of petrol. At £1.30 per litre, that makes £13,500. Add on £200 a year VED makes the grand total £15,500 for ten years motoring.
(all approximate figures)

The Auris:
80,000 miles in ten years @ approx 80mpg means 4,500ltrs of petrol. At £1.30 per litre that makes £6,000 but with zero VED.
(approximate figures)

Therefore, Auris versus Clio means a saving of £79 per month.

What’s the catch?

[[XAP]Bob]

Servicing, insurance, battery replacement...

[mill4six]

You'll never get 80mpg in the real world and if you drive with a heavy right foot it'll be awful. Top Gear (I know we all love them) compared a Prius and a big Merc on their track and the Prius used more fuel. Obviously this wasn't it's intended use. My Citroen C1 gives a very respectable 55mpg on an urban and rural commute compared to a claimed 68. That "eco" Fiat 500 turns out to be a bit thirsty too. I once read up on the Kia Picanto as I was planning on getting one but owners complained they were thirsty in spite of excellent claimed economy. Kia said the engine was a bit tight when new but would improve as it loosened up say in 30 000 miles. That would be 3 years for me waiting for the promised economy! All manufacturers lie

[Mick F]

No more servicing than any other car, perhaps even less.
Guaranteed five years, and the battery eight years.

Battery replacement?
Good point but the Prius is celebrating its tenth anniversary, and I understand that the batteries are still ok.
Anyway, what's a car worth after ten years?

All manufactures lie, of course, but as I understand it, hybrid cars run on electric in slow traffic with the petrol engine switched off. I see that 80mpg on a motorway isn't much better than an economical "normal" car, but stop start short journeys would be better with hybrid.

[Edwards]

The fuel figures on Top Crap are intended to show the bigger engined vehicles are better than those compared to deliberately. The last clip I saw of the type of silly nonsense the car that did the worst was being driven in the dirty air behind the one supposed to win. The speed and acceleration is also worked out.

Mick do not forget that the fuel used so far did not cost as much as now. So to make a fair comparison the mileage should all be priced the same.
I think you might find the cost of a service for the Prius could be more than the older Clio

As the Clio is coming up for 10 it is normally about this time expensive faults and problems start to arrive.

[Mick F]

Yes Keith, I understand the fact that ten years ago petrol was cheaper, but so were other things. I just used approximate figures as a "snap shot" to work out the numbers one way or another.

Our Clio has had many faults over the years, mainly in the first two or three, but even so, it is a lovely car and the best ever. Full leather, air conditioning, 110bhp, smooth and torquey, quiet and comfortable.

No plans to change it yet, but what too?

Hybrids are the future?

[rualexander]

You'll never get 80mpg in the real world and if you drive with a heavy right foot it'll be awful. Top Gear (I know we all love them) compared a Prius and a big Merc on their track and the Prius used more fuel. (

This video review by Autoexpress found that driven 'normally' the Auris only managed around 55mpg but driven in eco mode and consciously trying to be efficient they managed to get over 80mpg.

[Edwards]

Mick I was not trying to teach you to suck eggs, just trying to give you a few things to think about.
I think you are correct that Hybrid cars are the future. I also think that for the shorter stop start urban journeys electric vehicles will start to be much more common. With more people charging them using solar and wind power at home.

Even electric assist bikes are coming down in price. Saw an article on the BBC news Internet about electric assist pedals. The inventor is after backers.

[rjb]

The catch is that you are comparing a new Auris to a ten year old technology Clio. If you compare it to a newer car say a Hyundia i10 which returns approx 60 mpg with VED of £30 per year and which only costs approx £8000 with a 5 year guarantee then the figures show that over 10 years and 80,000 miles it will cost you less than £16500 at todays petrol prices. (This includes the initial outlay for the car as well)
Modern petrol cars have vastly improved mpg figures compared to cars even a few years old. However to balance this i read in the press that that old Toyota Prius's are being snapped up by taxi drivers as they are proving to be extremely reliable workhorses. I believe the future is with electric vehicles but battery technology is still holding them back. Battery powered bikes are the thing of the future in my opinion.

[beachcomber]

Unless I missed something you didn't add in the initial value of each car and subsequent depreciation. When these are added into the equasion your faithful Clio would possibly come out ahead.
I suppose you would have to work it out againt a Clio at todays prices to get a meaningful comparison.
I think it was during the 1980s that The Money Programme did an item about petrol cars V Diesel cars. I remember the Petrol car was cheaper to buy and up to something like 25K miles it was cheaper. After that the more expensive diesel scored due to it's greater mpg. I think they forcast that diesels would become the future choice of the fleet buyer. (My figures may be a bit out as it was a long time ago).
I suspect the greater the mileage the more the electric car comes into it's own.That is just my opinion.

[[XAP]Bob]

Go pure electric, and hire a car for the few journeys which are outside range... (pruned a push trailer, or a genny trailer)

It certainly an option I'd take if I could. But I need the price to come down, or for someone to just make a simple car.

If I had a garage and some time I'd get an old Mini and put a couple of decent motors, one on each rear wheel. Then lose the front engine...

[hubgearfreak]

No plans to change it yet, but what too?

an efficient, small diesel car*. it'll be little over half the price of a hybrid and reutrn similar mpg.
how much time does your car spend in large city's gridlocked streets, the only place a hybrid may be of use

*perhaps a skoda fabia - their 3cyl tdi is shown as £13700 and 68-94mpg. i'm sure that any maker of cars for the european market have similar

[rualexander]

No plans to change it yet, but what too?

an efficient, small diesel car*. it'll be little over half the price of a hybrid and reutrn similar mpg.
how much time does your car spend in large city's gridlocked streets, the only place a hybrid may be of use

*perhaps a skoda fabia - their 3cyl tdi is shown as £13700 and 68-94mpg. i'm sure that any maker of cars for the european market have similar

VW Polo Bluemotion, 67-91mpg, £14800

[hubgearfreak]

more fuel, more money? don't sound as good to me

[hubgearfreak]

approx 35mpg (most of our driving is local mileage, though it will return 50mpg on the motorway if driven gently)

i got that from a 1200 beetle. although they're not cheap anymore . . . . Item number: 250786392058