First cycle tour - kit advice

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
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Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

First cycle tour - kit advice

Post by Tangled Metal »

First tour, camping on sites, new area to us but we looking at a national cycle route (C&C up the Northumberland coast or similar) and we're experienced backpackers/campers. We'll be taking our kid who will be in a child seat or possibly a child trailer (we have one of those).

Now a lot of camping kit transfers so we have stove, pots etc. sorted. Indeed we are more than spoilt for choice on that front (I've had a stove habit from my wildcamping/backpacking past). We have sleeping bags, mats and wicking clothing too (not cycling specific though I am planning on getting cycling baggies with padded inner shorts).

So, what to take? How to pack it? Suggestions?

One difficulty is we are likely to only be able to use four rear panniers, currently have one medium bar bag and a top tube bag. Kit can be lashed to the top of the rear pannier on one bike. That is about all we have to carry the kit unless we take a trailer (combined child and kit). I am worried that all the kit on the rear pannier may affect handling. What is your opinion on that? BTW both bikes will not have the necessary front rack attachment points. Whilst there are front rack solutions that can be used with unsuitable forks we are unlikely to spare the cash to buy these expensive solutions. I was wondering if a bikepacking bag might be a good idea perhaps even a frame bag. What's your view on this?

BTW the bikes will have either front suspension or carbon forks. Not real touring bikes but we are not yet into serious touring but if we like this we may end up with a more suitable touring bike. We're all about owning only one bike due to money and storage so thi means we have bikes that suited our use but now are not ideal for touring.

So any general advice? Pointers, suggestions for kit that you consider worth getting, the go to kit, etc.?? BTW we are part way there with ortlieb rear panniers. Mine have the older fittings which means tool adjustment.
gloomyandy
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Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 10:46pm

Re: First cycle tour - kit advice

Post by gloomyandy »

Whatever you decide to take, it is well worth having a trial run to a local camp site. This will give you a chance to get a feel for the bikes loaded and will help you sort out the best way to pack the bikes and check to see if anything doesn't work. It may also help in planning daily distances etc. Four panniers (plus rack top etc.) should be enough since some of the bigger things like tent and stove etc. can be shared.
Tangled Metal
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Re: First cycle tour - kit advice

Post by Tangled Metal »

Cant use front panniers, no rack mount points. That is a potential issue I think. Everything will be on the rear rack apart from bar bags. Not sure if that is going to be ok or not.

I think we would go for a local ride fully loaded to get the feel for it. Mind you my partner is experienced having done some adventurous stuff overseas on self supported trips. Used an MTB with only rear rack and bar bag apparently. I guess is is ok but my bike is probably not as fogiving as a MTB (it is one of those so called adventure / gravel bikes I think).
andymiller
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Joined: 8 Dec 2007, 10:26am

Re: First cycle tour - kit advice

Post by andymiller »

Take what you'd take for backpacking. Simple as that. (OK add in an inner tube or two, bike pump and allen keys etc).

A pair of rear panniers come to about 42 litres - so a medium-sized backpack. If you need a bit more put a dry bag on the top ofbthe rack.

Most people you see out on the road don't use front panniers.

I'd suggest having a system where you put things back into the same pannier every time - otherwise you risk going mad playing 'which bag is it in?' when you need something.

I use a 50mm webbing strap to secure my panniers and provide some extra support. But so far as I can see I'm the only person in the entire world who does this.
nosmarbaj
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Location: West Berks

Re: First cycle tour - kit advice

Post by nosmarbaj »

andymiller wrote:Take what you'd take for backpacking. Simple as that. (OK add in an inner tube or two, bike pump and allen keys etc).

+1

You seem to have 2 potential baggage issues.
- Not enough capacity in luggage carriers - easy to check, just pack everything and see if it fits
- Balance on bikes caused by all weight at rear. As gloomyandy suggests, do a trial run. This does't need to involve an overnight camp, though that would be better; the main point is to load everything including child on the bikes and ride for a reasonable distance - approx. what you expect your daily mileage to be. Make sure you have a bail-out option in case you've misjudged.

The biggest problem I find with a lot of weight on the back is that the front wheel can tend to lift on really steep uphills. The solution for a first tour is simply avoid steep uphills.

I've never carried a child on a bike but the average toddler or older will probably weigh as much as a typical touring load. and will be sitting higher if in a child seat, thus increasing any balance/stability issues. I'd have thought the trailer would be the best option but others wil have more experience of this.
bohrsatom
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Re: First cycle tour - kit advice

Post by bohrsatom »

With two of you, you can share the load of tents/sleeping equipment/cookware etc which makes getting everything into rear panniers more achievable. When I go touring with my GF I have a 20L Alpkit dry bag on my rack containing the camping equipment and she has the 13L version with stove, cookware, etc. We don't take front panniers because I have a carbon fork, so no lugs, but even if I did the extra weight of a rack + bags is at least 2kg and that's without putting anything in then.

Image

We don't have kids so if you did go rear-pannier-only I'm not sure you could find space for their stuff too. It might be a struggle but you can always try it and see. A trailer may give you the extra space you need.

In terms of weight distribution issues you will be fine. We rode 4 months using the setup described above with no real problems. I cycled up a very short 14% hill just fine but honestly the kinds of hills which could cause your front wheel to come off the ground will be too steep to ride up anyway!
Vorpal
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Re: First cycle tour - kit advice

Post by Vorpal »

We have a couple of kit threads in the 'too good to lose' section

This one is very detailed viewtopic.php?f=42&t=85590

This one is about minimising kit viewtopic.php?f=16&t=48438

Both threads have some disucssion and opinions about whether certain items are needed, benefits of some items, etc.

Of course, you also have bring stuff for the little one. My advice, for having done this with kids: bring something that will entertain the little one, despite extra weight. His favorite toys, an electronic gizmo (ipad?), whatever works best for him. Not too much; just a couple of things because sometimes, one parent needs to go use the loo, while the other one is cooking or setting up a tent or something. :lol:
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
nosmarbaj
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Location: West Berks

Re: First cycle tour - kit advice

Post by nosmarbaj »

bohrsatom wrote: I cycled up a very short 14% hill just fine but honestly the kinds of hills which could cause your front wheel to come off the ground will be too steep to ride up anyway!

Try cycling around Devon/Somerset! I just managed the toll road up from Porlock; the hill from Lynmouth to Lynton defeated me due to front wheel lift. But I agree such hills (>20%) are not common, and can of course be walked.
Tangled Metal
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Re: First cycle tour - kit advice

Post by Tangled Metal »

Do you know I never really thought of comparing things to rucksack sizes. We both have a pair of ortlieb panniers which IIRC make up 40 litres. Add in perhaps 7 litre bar bag and drg sacks on top of the rack in my case and you could easily end up with up to 120 litres between the two of us. Now In backpacking I got down to 20 litres on my own, 32 litres for about 3 or 4 days or 50 litres with 15 litre overload but only if I was doing over 7 days in Scotland in didgy weather without coming down from the hills at all. More often than not those 7 day plus trips never even filled the 5 litre sack.

So this makes me think even using a big tent (3 man with extended porch) instead of a micro tarp and bivvy we can easily ce with the load in terms of packing it in. I was talking with my partner about this and she told me to not be so silly, panniers and the top of the rack will be good enough and I'll have no problem with handling. She only ever used panniers, top of rack and bar bag. I just need a bar bag now but the ortleib ones are too expensive. I was wondering whether to get an Alpkit Stingray or possum frame bag and possible one of their bar bag bikepacking thingies instead of a bar bag. I could stash the sleeping bag and other stuff in that but would it affect handling much? My quilt is 690g but I could stash my sleeping bag in there as well which weights about 1kg. My bag and quilt combined are lighter than our other sleeping bags plus pack a lot smaller too.

I wanted to try a loaded ride today but coudn't get out. Only a 17 mile ride over local roads but some hills so a good test. WIll try another weekend. It'll be July when we go away I think so enough time for a trial.

Trailer is probably sensible but since we intend to take trains at some point I think it would be easier to leave the trailer at home if at all possible
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foxyrider
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Re: First cycle tour - kit advice

Post by foxyrider »

IME most European families doing cycle camping use a trailer. Child, toys, and the bulky stuff are then off the bike, other issues disappear. You have the trailer already so use it!

You seem to have a lot of sleeping gear there - quilt and bag 1.6kg! I'm guessing there's a lot of bulk there too - this would be where i'd put some effort in to reducing this. You shouldn't need a 4 season mountain bag, 2/3 season with a silk liner will reduce bulk and weight and needn't cost a lot - take a look in Decathlon.

Whatever, i'd say your biggest challenge is keeping junior occupied!
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
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foxyrider
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Re: First cycle tour - kit advice

Post by foxyrider »

Duplicate removed
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: First cycle tour - kit advice

Post by Tangled Metal »

Quilt is polite one and packs to the size of a can of coke but only 690g. The 1kg sleeping bag packs down into less than 10 litres probably a lot less than that. Oh and they're extra long too because I'm 6'5" tall. The sleeping bag is a bit heavy but it packs down ok. It's also a fusion bag from marmot. That is it's down inner layer and primaloft outer layer. This might sound strange but I got it for a song when short of cash and it's actually great for bivvy use or single skin tent use which was what I used when I got it.

Pack volume more than weight I think is the issue. Both these bags pack small enough to fit in probably 12-15 litres. Small enough to fit into a dry bag stashed to the bars I think.

I get the bit about the trailer. It's just a real drag in the way I think panniers aren't. Whenever I use it I'm stuck in the small chainring and lowest gears. I'd run out of low gears I think on steeper hills. I suspect use of trailers would mean I'd need to change the gearing drastically. A change to long drop rear derailleur, change in cassette to include granny gear and possibly change the chainset too. 50-34T chainrings and 11-25 cassette. Great commuter but with a trailer It's sometimes hard work.

Mind you the trailer is great with toys and a huge cuddly toy that he can fall asleep against. Great when it's very wet and windy.
pwa
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Re: First cycle tour - kit advice

Post by pwa »

I've not had time to read the whole thread, so excuse me if I say something already mentioned.

Lack of front panniers is not a deal breaker. You only put light stuff in them anyway. The tent can stay outside, probably on top of the rack. Keep everything to a minimum. Don't take a big Trangia style cooking set-up if you don't need to. Select clothing on the basis of how small it packs and how quickly it dries. Wash clothing at the end of each day and dry it partly by rolling it up with a super-absorbent travel towel, kneeling on it, wringing it and so on, so that the clothing is almost dry before you leave it out in the air. That way you can minimise the clothing you need to take. Practice that drying technique at home if you are not sure. It works. I use padded cycle shorts and only need one pair on tour because I can wash them in the shower each evening and get them dry(ish) for the next morning even in damp weather. That saves a lot of space.
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