willem jongman wrote:I am afraid those tests show little relation to reality. They are done on a smooth steel drum and hence ignore the slowing down effect of bumps and the like.
It's a lumpy drum so there is some bump effect. I agree it's not real world but it's more directly comparable than Jan Heine's tests, which are probably never over exactly the same surface twice.
Schwalbe's new One Star compound does seem a real winner for comfort and more than compensation for their draggier protection belt compared to kevlar tyres with other compounds. It'll be interesting if they produce a Kevlar One Star tyre, because that should be really fast and still have moderate protection.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Contact patch width is indeed one way of looking at it. I am not convinced compound is that important, because most rolling resistance does not come from contact, but from the deflection of the casing. For me, the most important thing is that wider tyres simply hold much more air, and thus have much greater suspension travel. Additionally, they can also be ridden with lower pressure, and hence more suspension. Jan Heine's tests were quite sophisticated, using uniformly rough surfaces, and included proper statistical analysis to eliminate variation in test conditions. In the past, wide tyres with high air volume needed stiffer sidewalls if they were not to fail, and the resistance from these stiff casings slowed you down, but tyre technology has improved enormously. Thin and flexible casings can now be strong enough to survive the forces of wide tyres. The result is tyres where you almost float over uneven surfaces. The Compass Rat Trap Pass that I now use is a remarkable achievement, but other more mainstream tyres like the Schwalbe Almotion and earlier on the Big Apple also represent big advances over previous stiffer tyres. So we have two new developments, wider tyres and more flexible tyres, and they can now be combined. Of the two tyre width is the more important. But a wide Marathon Plus is still a horrible tyre in my view, and slow. In the end, everyone has to decide on their own ideal compromise between sturdiness and speed/comfort. Not all conditions are the same, and I would never use the Rat Trap Pass on an epic expedition in far away country. And for my town bike I use the somewhat more reliable Pasela Tourguard with kevlar anti puncture - I often cannot afford to be late for work. After five years with these tyres, I still have not had a puncture. But for my camping tours in most of Europe, I love the Rat Trap Pass, without any puncture protection layer. No punctures yet.
I read the rolling tests on the Greenguards and thought they would be OK,, but as soon as you get on even a slightly rough surface, they feel awful. I rode a lot of cycle paths in Korea, those corrugated concrete types. The Greenguards felt very harsh and unforgiving.
If I went on good tarmac, they felt good and you could feel them rolling well. The trouble is that most roads aren't silky smooth.
One problem with wider tyres is that they feel either comfortable or squishy and slow, depending on your view. I can imagine that after riding on as rock hard narrow tyre, which 'feels' like it is fast, a wide softer tyre will feel sluggish, etc. Maybe the solution when you first fit fatter tyres is to pump them up really hard. You will then get the harshness you are used to. Let them slowly deflate over time, which will gently break you in to the much nicer feel of the wider tyre.
actually the Green guard Marathon in wide width eg 1.75" feels very nice. I could imagine any of the marathons in narrow could be quite a harsh ride due to strong side wall and no doubt high pressure. My heavy weight on 1.75" at about rear 60/front 50 psi feel fine
Well, to each their own, but the Greenguards that I gave away were 26x2.0, i.e. even wider. Which is not to say that I cannot imagine situations in which I would advise them. However, for my own roughstuff trips like gravel roads in Norway, I keep a set of the now discontinued Marathon Extremes. These have a mild mtb thread, and quite robust but flexible casing, though not as flexible as the fastest mtb tyres, let alone the Rat Trap Pass. They were very reassuring on the gravel roads, but clearly slower on tarmac than the Big Apples on friends' bikes.
I notice someone is using Compass tires (sic). I rode down the Pacific coast on Compass Bon Jon Pass tires the largest my Trek 520 would takes (35s) after 650 miles and 6 flats I'd had enough and replaced them with Ribmo 700 X 28, the only 700 road tire the bike shop in Crescent City had, and no more flats. That said, they do roll really nicely, I rode for bit with a bloke on Schwalbe Marathon Pluses and every time we coasted downhill I had to brake to not overtake him but those flats... one day 3 in 20 miles. Well, my LBS chap did say he didn't sell them because "they get a lotta flats".
You only live once, which is enough if you do it right. - Mae West
I am the one who rides the Compass Rat Trap Pass, without punctures for the first 1500 km or so. They roll very well indeed. The story with such fast tyres is that you have far fewer punctures in the wider sizes (Rat Trap Pass is 52 mm). And of course, it also depends on your body weight and on where you ride. There is often a lot of debris like bits of steel car tyre belts on the side of US roads. On my cyclocross bike (used as fast tourer and all road racer) I use the 35 mm Pasela (the Compass Bon Jon had not come out in this size yet), without the kevlar anti puncture layer. Thus far I have had no punctures either, but it sounds as if in this size anything more delicate than the Pasela without kevlar could be a problem. Most interestingly, on my town bike (used in a university town with quite a bit of broken glass) I have the 32 mm Pasela Tourguard (i.e. with kevlar antipuncture) because nothing wider will fit this frame, and I have not had a single puncture in perhaps 5000 km. They need replacing pretty soon. The Compass tyres do indeed roll rather better, and are more comfortable, but I find the Pasela quite good as well in this respect, and particularly the ones without the kevlar anti puncture. Its a thin line indeed.
I'm not sure what caused most of the flats, a couple were obviously glass because it was still in the tire but the rest I don't know. I looked diligently for steel wires from truck tires but found none. (As you say Willem these are very common; I even carry a Leatherman tool with needle nose pliers for pulling them out.) At one stage I stuck a Park Patch over an area where I thought I might have missed something but the bumping got too annoying so I took it off; it made no difference, the next flat was nowhere near it. If the weather had been OK I might have lived with the Compasses but thoughts of more flats in the middle of rain and 30 mph winds were spoiling my fun.
You only live once, which is enough if you do it right. - Mae West
Punctures remain a mysterious subject. Fortunately our own experience only provides a sample size that is too small for serious analysis. By and large I think the anxiety about punctures is exaggerated, but your experience is not one I would have liked to share. Here in nw Europe I try to ride long distance cycle routes that take me either along gravel roads etc, or on very minor roads with little or no car traffic (hence also my preference for wide tyres). Given the higher population densities compared to many parts of the USA, many other roads have become to dangerous too ride on for my taste.
Thanks for the comments everybody. I cannot do wider than 28mm and it seems the Marathons are still a touring choice although I've never had a pxxxxxxx using them. I started on continentals because they came with the bike but had many of the p words so went tot he Schwalbe brand.
Looking at my tyres today I think I have enough mileage until next June when i put the bike on the ferry so have plenty of time.
The Marathon Plus is, of course, the stiffest tyre of the range. Particularly with a narrow tyre, this means the ride will be uncomfortable and slow on anything other that very smooth tarmac.
My Thorn Expedition bike came fitted with Marathon Plus and they are the most puncture-resistant tyres I have ever had, but they were slow and just didn't feel right. When I swapped them for the Marathon Supreme (26 x 2) the difference in ride was unbelievable - it felt in comparison like I was previously riding on sand! I am so pleased with them on tarmac, but I don't think they would be suitable for any prolonged period of rough tracks, they are not robust enough - it's all a compromise.
