Bike recommendations sought for South America / Carretera Austral

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
Gaz210
Posts: 32
Joined: 18 Nov 2013, 12:43pm

Bike recommendations sought for South America / Carretera Austral

Post by Gaz210 »

Evening

Cheeky multi part question. I am interested if anyone could direct me to bike recommendations for long distance South American travel, especially the Carretera Austral in Chile / Patagonia, which has many long unpaved sections.

Related to this I would greatly appreciate:
- any thoughts on min tyre width for the unpaved sections
- any thoughts on the latest thinking regarding 29 inch wheels (as per all the rage in MTB world) for touring. The Trek below has 29ers
- finally anyone tried a small trailer and come to any conclusions regarding efficiency versus fully loading. I will be going solo so will be carrying quite a bit


Key bike criteria:
Dropped handlebar
Sub £2k
Disc brakes
Clearance for wider tyres - min 35mm (I think - advice welcome)

Initial research is showing the following four:
Surly Long Haul Trucker (of course - ubiquitous it seems, and my inner contrarian seeks an alternative!)
Salsa Marrakesh - http://salsacycles.com/bikes/marrakesh/ ... pbar_deore
Trek 920 - https://www.evanscycles.com/trek-920-20 ... e-EV217047 - some reviews commenting on weakness of rear wheel but unclear to me if warranted
Ridgeback Panorama - http://www.ridgeback.co.uk/bikes/touring/world/panorama - with some reservations that tyre clearance may not be enough


Thanks folks - greatly appreciate input
irc
Posts: 5192
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re: Bike recommendations sought for South America / Carretera Austral

Post by irc »

A 29er rim is the same diameter as a 700c. Usually wider. The Trek is fitted with 29x2" tyres. Which are pretty much the same as 700x50. The Disc Trucker in the 700c size will take 700x45s so not a lot in it. Possibly a touch more even. My 700c Trucker takes 700x42 with good mudguard clearance.

If you are planning a lot of dirt roads then 700x45 or wider is the way to go. I've found 700x37s OK on USA gravel roads but when you get soft sections the wider the better.

As for the trailer? Your choice but I'd say no. Few long distance tourers use them. If you can't fit your gear in 4 panniers, the rack top, and a bar bag you are carrying too much. Once you add a trailer you have the weight of the trailer, the extra tubes/tyres to fir the trailer wheels. Possibly the extra weight of the gear you carry because you now can.

Worth a read is Jeff Kruys tours on crazyguyonabike. He toured for a few years in South America. From his facts and figures page he used 700x35s. Useful numbers there for how long you will get out of tyres and other components.

https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/pag ... 1957&v=2Ou
Gaz210
Posts: 32
Joined: 18 Nov 2013, 12:43pm

Re: Bike recommendations sought for South America / Carretera Austral

Post by Gaz210 »

Thanks IRC

Trailer thing was more of an idle physics question rather than looking for extra capacity per se, the question being is it more efficient pull a separately loaded trailer rather than load your own bike. Likely off the agenda for practicality reasons of security, needing to get the odd bus etc!

Strayed across this recently which got the old cogs whirring!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y104GKJ8_qk
willem jongman
Posts: 2750
Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: Bike recommendations sought for South America / Carretera Austral

Post by willem jongman »

I think it all has to start with the tyres. You need something wide, with a fair amount of tread, and robust. In practice that means the Schwalbe Mondial. These are not fast tyres, but they are the perfect tyre for what you want. And I think you want them wide. A few years ago I did the Rallarvegen in Norway, with the now discontinued 50 mm 26 inch Marathon Extremes. I would not have minded one size wider, for more control (I also use a dropbar) and comfort. So I would go for either the 55 mm in 26 inch or the 50 mm in 28/9 inch. I have a personal preference for 26 inch. Heavy wide tyres in 28/9 inch handle slow and sluggish. But that is personal. You could take different tyres as spares, like a fast one and a mtb tyre. In that case you can fit the fast tyre on the rear (where rolling resistance is greatest) when you have long stretches of tarmac, and a really coarse mtb tyre at the front (where handling demands more tread) when the terrain is very rough.
Wheels. On tours like you are planning wheels are often the weakest link. So you need sturdy handbuilt ones rather than factory stuff.
I would be reluctant to use disc brakes. As brakes they can be superb, but they are more vulnerable on buses, trains etc. They also require a stiff and uncomfortable front fork. Why not just use the new simpler XT V brakes with Tektro levers for drop bars.
Forget about a trailer. They weigh at least some 6kg, and have more aerodynamic drag. And they are a hassle with transport. Mind you, I have one (a two wheeler), and like it for what it can do: carry huge loads, and carry camping load riding with a road bike.
I would look into a Thorn Sherpa.
Last edited by willem jongman on 20 Nov 2016, 9:44am, edited 1 time in total.
Bonefishblues
Posts: 11010
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Bike recommendations sought for South America / Carretera Austral

Post by Bonefishblues »

With a goodly amount of money left for selective upgrades. (Reluctantly) agree with the comments about the unsuitability discs of for this kind of work.

http://www.oxfordbikeworks.co.uk/exp-lite/
Gaz210
Posts: 32
Joined: 18 Nov 2013, 12:43pm

Re: Bike recommendations sought for South America / Carretera Austral

Post by Gaz210 »

The Thorn pdf catalogue should come with a health warning - quite an Aladdin's cave of information. I see they steer the heavy loader towards the Nomad model.

Noted regarding excellent advice re discs brakes....but I am minded to trade damage risk in transit for more useful stopping power with load. Have been very impressed with colleagues Surly fitted with same despite the abuse he throws at it

Kill the tailer idea - science Q for a different day / post

Thanks for comments
simonhill
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Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 11:28am
Location: Essex

Re: Bike recommendations sought for South America / Carretera Austral

Post by simonhill »

The obvious choice is a Surly, but I won't go for that because it is the obvious choice.

Interesting logic, what else do you apply it to?
willem jongman
Posts: 2750
Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: Bike recommendations sought for South America / Carretera Austral

Post by willem jongman »

Personally, my favourite drop bar touring brakes are the discontinued Magura HS66 hydraulic rim brakes, but you may have to search long and hard to get a set on Ebay. I did not mention the Thorn Nomad because it is a Rohloff bike, and hence over your budget. Personally, I like my Rohloff hub, but it is pricey.
There are two minor things to avoid if you can. The first is Shimano XT (rear) hubs, as these now have fatter aluminium axles leaving less room for the bearings that now use smaller balls. In affordable hubs, Shimano LX is now probably your best bet. The second thing to avoid is modern Shimano cranksets with external bearings. Again, these have rather smaller balls, and in a more exposed position. Sugino XD cranks with Shimano UN55 square taper bottom bracket are a better alternative. I would take steel chainwheels for the inner and middle ring. And I would opt for a two bolt seat post.
You may want to consider a hub generator, to produce some electricity yourself, e.g. to charge a gps, and to have good lighting when you really need it (no planning is perfect).
Gaz210
Posts: 32
Joined: 18 Nov 2013, 12:43pm

Re: Bike recommendations sought for South America / Carretera Austral

Post by Gaz210 »

simonhill wrote:The obvious choice is a Surly, but I won't go for that because it is the obvious choice.

Interesting logic, what else do you apply it to?


Born contrarian. What can I say. Makes life more interesting, if more difficult :)
Gaz210
Posts: 32
Joined: 18 Nov 2013, 12:43pm

Re: Bike recommendations sought for South America / Carretera Austral

Post by Gaz210 »

"You may want to consider a hub generator, to produce some electricity yourself, e.g. to charge a gps, and to have good lighting when you really need it (no planning is perfect)."

Thanks Willem - any recommendations in this area? I had hoped to avoid having a wheel built up but if do so would be good to know what to shoot for
willem jongman
Posts: 2750
Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: Bike recommendations sought for South America / Carretera Austral

Post by willem jongman »

Well as for wheels I think for a trip like this you do need the best possible handbuilt wheels rather than machine built factory stuff. So you might as well go for a generator hub. The SON hubs by Schmidt are undoubtedly the best on the market (get one for 26-28 inch wheels if you also want to charge things), even if the better Shimano ones have improved a lot.
MartinBrice
Posts: 464
Joined: 13 Nov 2007, 9:57am

Re: Bike recommendations sought for South America / Carretera Austral

Post by MartinBrice »

I rode this last year. You need:

26 inch wheels with 36 spokes. The road is terrible, possibly the worst in the world. It's a thousand miles of gravel, bumpy all the way. The dust is sharp, pointed volcanic dust, not the nice rounded bits you get elsewhere.

If a wheel breaks you are in trouble. A 700c wheel makes spokes impossible to find and tyres must be sent from Europe or the US.

Forget the name on the frame, most bikes come from the same factory anyway. What you need is reliability above all else.

I took a Thorn Raven. Rohloff hub, not necessary brit a nice to have.

You must have steel racks of the highest quality. If you don't, when you get to O'Higgins you can do what everybody else with aluminium racks does: nail them to the wall of the hostel.

Wide tyres are more comfy. Disc brakes will break and you'll be in trouble. Take V brakes, and spare blocks.

Learn some Spanish: words for brakes, wheels, etc. Download Google Translate Spanish to your mobile, check you have obscure words such as brake cables and "can I buy that wheel off your old mountain bike"

Learn bike maintenance.

Take brand new tyres.

I took advice from Thorn. They knows their stuff.

The bike was perfect, didn't even get one puncture.

You can get resealable gas cylinders there, wild camping is a must, as it is three or four days between villages and you must carry four days of food.

The people were lovely, honest, friendly, helpful. Just great. The road, not so much.

PS jongman's comments about bottom brackets are worth thinking about. He knows his stuff.
iviehoff
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Joined: 20 Jan 2009, 4:38pm

Re: Bike recommendations sought for South America / Carretera Austral

Post by iviehoff »

to have good lighting when you really need it


Which, in this case, is almost never. Assuming you are cycling in a sensible season, you are cycling in long daylight. You only need lights for the occasional tunnel, trip late back from the restaurant, etc. The only reason to have a hub generator is if you really really want electricity to recharge electric devices. Otherwise it is just weight and something to go wrong.

Before attaching any complicated/advanced/expensive part to your bike, think to yourself, what will I do when I am 2000km from the nearest bikeshop that has any kind of compatible spare part for it. Because that kind of stuff will mostly only be got in Santiago in Chile, and barely at all in Argentina.
willem jongman
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Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: Bike recommendations sought for South America / Carretera Austral

Post by willem jongman »

I have needed good lights at least once every holiday for most years, even in nw Europe with its long days. And then there are the rainy days with impaired visibility. But I agree that the main reason would be to charge gear away from civilization. I do not agree that fitting a quality hub generator like the Schmidt hub adds to the risk. Yes, they can go wrong, like anything, but it is unlikely given the high quality. After all, the alternative is not no hub, but a different hub.
Gaz210
Posts: 32
Joined: 18 Nov 2013, 12:43pm

Re: Bike recommendations sought for South America / Carretera Austral

Post by Gaz210 »

Stellar comments chaps thank you for taking the time esp MartinBrice - solid advice and a few of that list in the bag, and Tubus racks already in the house on my Bob Jackson, which I seem to be spending more money on having lucked upon a campag triple with the gear ratios I sought - silver campag athena triple with <50 miles on it that I'm taking off will be available soon if anyone interested! I digress

Have spent a bit of time talking Surly and Genesis with Brixton Cycles and will maybe try and get down to Thorn. Well just for sport the only other complete package bikes that I have seen that seem to be contenders in this space are the Genesis Tour de Fer 20 (with gearing modification) and the Kona Sutra, both offering pretty good equipment levels for the money. Genesis comes with dynamo hubs, though wouldn't take more than c 45mm tyres.

Now please don't think me belligerent on this disc point but can I just ask from you learned folk - if I were to bring two spare rotors with me, which are interchangeable back and front on several systems, and hence have a solution to any bent rotors in transport for example - what else is going to go wrong to disc brakes on a trip of this nature, especially if you have a self calibrating hydraulic system (and teach yourself how to bleed it before going should that unlikely situation ever arise). Genuinely interested - thanks. Sharp stone chips likely to sever cables down low for example?

(Martin - would love the Rohloff but just over budget on this occasion)

Thanks
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