Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

[thirdcrank]

I'm a bit late returning to this thread on which I posted higher up, recommending the road I now learn is called Peat Lane.

Much of my experience of the Pateley Bridge area comes from a time a few years ago when two of us used to plan routes taking in as many OS chevrons as possible and there are plenty around PB. We used to have our own, self-imposed rules eg, you can't ride back down a road until you have covered a certain distance (can't remember how far) and that meant that in order to count Greenhow, we had to come down another way and Peat Lane is ideal in terms of getting straight back into town. In my minds eye, it's nothing like as bad as it looks on streetview. I certainly remember a rough bit under the trees - around where the veteran cars are parked(?) Otherwise, my memory is of a joyful, traffic-free swoop down.

Reference has been made (531colin?) to experienced riders and bearing in mind we did this every year for half-a-dozen years, building up the distance and chevrons each year, when you have been down a road once, you have the experience of that road, even if you are not experienced overall. That experience affects your opinion. Perhaps familiarity leads something not so strong as contempt: complacency, perhaps? I thought it was OK but I value the warnings of others.

[Cyril Haearn]

I do wish the laws of physics could be changed so that one could ride up hill without having to ride down again.

[mbga8mjb]

I've just completed WOTR and descended this hill on Friday 17th March. The weather all day was heavy rain and we approached at the end of 65 miles wet riding with an overnight stay in PB to look forward too.

After falling off on my way to my local station on Thursday in the rain, I was extra wary on the way down.

Its a challenging descent and I can see how a bike can run away with itself. I was grabbing both brakes hard on the way down, to the point my hands were sore when we arrived in PB. Not at all enjoyable in the wet.

I also chewed through a set of rear pads on the first day too.

[Vorpal]

I do wish the laws of physics could be changed so that one could ride up hill without having to ride down again.

I wish the law of physics could be changed so that one could ride down without having had to ride up.

[Cyril Haearn]

I do wish the laws of physics could be changed so that one could ride up hill without having to ride down again.

I wish the law of physics could be changed so that one could ride down without having had to ride up.

You win I lose

In Stuttgart there is a tram that takes bikes uphill but NOT down

So much for cycling as healthy exercise

[pwa]

When I cycled down Greenhow Hill with my kids they were on Islabikes, each with a pair of small panniers. I gave them a brief warning about keeping their speed low and they had no problems. I can see how an inexperienced cyclist with inefficient brakes might come unstuck, though.

There are much more challenging descents on minor roads in the upland parts of the UK. The difference here is that this is a wide road with white lines down the middle and may encourage complacency from some. Treat it with the respect it deserves and you will get to enjoy your cafe stop at the bottom.

[foxyrider]

Bottom line - ride within you and your bikes capabilities.

The hill I slice down at 50 others will crawl down at 10. You don't have to go downhill fast, personally I enjoy fast descents, I think i've sense enough to know when a risk is acceptable to me. That may depend on the weather, familiarity with the road, traffic conditions - even how I'm feeling on the day.

Clearly there are things out of our immediate control, mechanical failure, punctures etc. Yes you can mitigate against those to some extent with maintenence but nothing is ever 100%.

The problem, as is all too common, is less experienced / confident participants can easily colour how others see things.

As an example - earlier this year I started descending a local road, quite steep and narrow which culminates in a tight hairpin. I know it quite well so with the bike I was on was taking things easy - you need to keep speed low to actually get around the hairpin which is steep and blind.

Not far from the top three guys on road bikes with all the gear swept past me - their choice. However when I reached the bend a few seconds later one was climbing out of the ditch, another was picking himself off the verge. Clearly inexperience and over confidence had caused 2/3rds of them to have potentially fatal offs. This was on a bone dry day mid morning so weather wasn't an issue.

I like to think I have a relatively good level of experience riding solo, in groups, on road, off road, all weather's and times of day but there are still times I ride with maybe more caution than is strictly needed.

[thirdcrank]

It's important to ride in accordance with what you can see, rather than what you assume. Riding a bike doesn't enable anybody to see round corners any more than driving a car does.

[squeaker]

It's important to ride in accordance with what you can see, rather than what you assume. Riding a bike doesn't enable anybody to see round corners any more than driving a car does.

That, plus the (relatively) crap brakes (compared with most motor vehicles, which many of the punters might have recently been driving).

[Gattonero]

How steep is this hill?

[thirdcrank]

If you are used to hills, it's not particularly steep, especially compared with some of the other hills in and around Pateley Bridge. The signs say 16% IIRC.

I think the main point is that if you arrive at the top perhaps fully laden and don't get the speed under control then, you may well run out of road lower down and as a B road in a tourist area it carries an increasing amount of traffic including farm-related vehicles and there's an active quarry at the top. If you do run out of road, and cross the white line instead of hitting the verge or wall, there's a good chance of meeting something coming up. The bottom is in Pateley Bridge itself.

There is now at least one big sign at the bottom of the climb warning drivers that there may be cyclists on this hill.

It's easy to get something like this out of proportion but two riders have been in fatal crashes in the last few years and nobody wants any more.

[pwa]

How steep is this hill?

Yes, nothing to worry about. You've been down steeper hills and you've been down longer hills, but not many that are steep for that long. Approach it with a bit of respect and you will have no problems.

[HarryD]

Three fatal crashes. A paramedic friend of mine attended them all. Not good for anyone.

[thirdcrank]

The important thing is to learn from the tragic experience of others.

FWIW, I can find two fairly recent reports of cyclists being killed: one is reported to have collided with a tree and the other with a wall.

http://www.cravenherald.co.uk/news/1340 ... _Greenhow/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-yo ... e-22284514

There's also a report of a fatal collision involving a car and a dustbin lorry.

To avoid frightening riders off altogether, I'd just say once you have been through Greenhow village, keep an eye open for the signs warning of the steep hill which are on a deceptively flat bit and then be cautious about speed.
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It's just occurred to me to check the dates of the fatal crashes in my links and both riders died well after this thread was started.

[Chat Noir]

Greenhow Hill is a series of 4 steeper steps with slightly less steep sections in between. You go downhill for a long way from Greenhow before the steeper sections so you can build up a lot of speed. Also, has some sharpish bends, parked cars and the steepest section near the bottom, often with parked cars and maybe vehicles coming up the hill. From memory, maximum gradients 16 or 17%. Like any other hill, stay within your limits but I can understand the concerns being raised, particularly because you’re arriving in what can be a surprisingly busy conurbation at the bottom – I was there yesterday, but walking. I prefer to cycle up this hill, it’s not one of my favourites for coming down, one I take carefully and let others go - but it isn't that bad! I have a dislocated collarbone (old cycling accident) and it has a habit of throbbing occasionally as if to remind me to be careful - for some reason, this is one of the places where it urges caution.

Of course, once in Pateley Bridge you will be spoiled for choices of cafes and even a particularly good (and old) sweet shop.