Mavic Open Elite vs. Open Sport Rims vs CXP Elite Rims

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Annoying Twit
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Mavic Open Elite vs. Open Sport Rims vs CXP Elite Rims

Post by Annoying Twit »

What is the difference between them? Are all or any of them decent rims. Any thoughts on putting these rims together with a Shimano 105 32H hub that I already have and using DT Swiss straight spokes?
PH
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Re: Mavic Open Elite vs. Open Sport Rims vs CXP Elite Rims

Post by PH »

I don't know about CXP, but the Elite is the same rim as the Sport, Mavic have changed a lot of the names, for what reasons only they will know. I've had a set and they're fine, single eyelet, external brake wear indicator, lasted reasonably well after plenty of abuse. Not an expensive rim and IMO well worth the money.
Brucey
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Re: Mavic Open Elite vs. Open Sport Rims vs CXP Elite Rims

Post by Brucey »

I posted this elsewhere to explain what Mavic appear to have done with their rims recently;

Mavic's rim range has been changed quite a lot (in name at least) in the last 18 months;

Open Pro is now 'Open Pro C' (and there is now also 'Open Pro T' for tubs)
Open Sport is now 'Open Elite' and appears to be unchanged.
CXP 33 is now 'CXP Pro' and appears to be unchanged.
CXP 22 (S,N models) are now replaced by 'CXP Elite' (single eyelet) and 'CXP' (no eyelet) rims. These are based on the same extrusion design as CXP 22.

Annoyingly, there is a difference in the new CXP Elite rim. The old CXP 22 had a reasonably thick braking surface and an external wear indicator (comparable to the Open Sport/Open Elite braking surface design) but the CXP Elite rim now has a smooth braking surface with no wear indicator. It is also ~0.6mm narrower externally.

So how have they made this change.....? -easy-peasy, some flipping eejit has just machined most of the braking surface off the extrusion. Duh! I recently received my first supplies of CXP Elite rims and they are (by comparison with CXP 22) about half-way worn out even when they are brand new. Very disappointing; I thought that CXP 22 made a pretty good training rim before; CXP Elite, not so much now....


So yeah, with a few caveats I think that Mavic's budget rims are OK. They are usually more consistently straight, better sized, and better finished than most other rims around that price.

I would say that if you are going to ride hard and it is a rear wheel, you might need to use threadlock on the NDS nipples with a 32h Open Sport/Open Elite. But if it is a front wheel it will be fine for most folk.

cheers
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Annoying Twit
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Re: Mavic Open Elite vs. Open Sport Rims vs CXP Elite Rims

Post by Annoying Twit »

Brucey wrote:So yeah, with a few caveats I think that Mavic's budget rims are OK. They are usually more consistently straight, better sized, and better finished than most other rims around that price.

I would say that if you are going to ride hard and it is a rear wheel, you might need to use threadlock on the NDS nipples with a 32h Open Sport/Open Elite. But if it is a front wheel it will be fine for most folk.

cheers


Thanks. It's for the front wheel of my commuting bike. I do ride on rough roads sometimes, and do take this bike out over longer distances.
SpannerGeek
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Re: Mavic Open Elite vs. Open Sport Rims vs CXP Elite Rims

Post by SpannerGeek »

Does anyone know if there are one of these new Mavic rims compatible with the Ambrosio fcs 28 road rim? I've recently trashed it and I think the '28' stands for 28mm deep? Lots of 30mm deep rims, but I'd prefer to re use the spokes from this wheel as it's done very low miles before the eyelet split.
Brucey
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Re: Mavic Open Elite vs. Open Sport Rims vs CXP Elite Rims

Post by Brucey »

Annoying Twit wrote:....It's for the front wheel of my commuting bike. I do ride on rough roads sometimes, and do take this bike out over longer distances.


I think an Open Elite rim will be fine (unless you are very big and/or a little ham-fisted). External wear indicator means it is practical too. I have not had the chance to measure an Open Elite rim yet though.

I do wish that there were better training/commuting rims, that had just a bit more meat in the braking surface though. If you do the sums, it works out that (roughly) an extra 0.25mm on the braking surface will 'cost' less than 30g weight. To me it is a no-brainer, to make the braking surface thicker on rims that are going to see hard use, but Mavic seem to be going in the reverse direction with some of their rim models.

cheers
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Brucey
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Re: Mavic Open Elite vs. Open Sport Rims vs CXP Elite Rims

Post by Brucey »

SpannerGeek wrote:Does anyone know if there are one of these new Mavic rims compatible with the Ambrosio fcs 28 road rim? I've recently trashed it and I think the '28' stands for 28mm deep? Lots of 30mm deep rims, but I'd prefer to re use the spokes from this wheel as it's done very low miles before the eyelet split.


fcs28 has ~590mm ERD. I think this isn't a match for the Mavic rims. However if you had the old wheel built x3, you might be able to build it x2 with the same spokes and a larger ERD rim.

Out of interest where is the bad eyelet in your fcs28 rim (with respect to the valve hole/rim join)?

cheers
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531colin
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Re: Mavic Open Elite vs. Open Sport Rims vs CXP Elite Rims

Post by 531colin »

Brucey wrote:..I do wish that there were better training/commuting rims, that had just a bit more meat in the braking surface though...


H plus son Archetype?....nice rim, maybe a bit wide and spendy?
Exal XR2.......cheap as chips, a deeper well would make tyre changes easier.
Annoying Twit
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Re: Mavic Open Elite vs. Open Sport Rims vs CXP Elite Rims

Post by Annoying Twit »

Thanks all.

I've read reviews of the XR2, but am hesitant to buy them due to the reports of it being difficult to put on tyres. I often find it difficult to put tyres on as it is; I don't want it to be even harder. If I bought a Mavic rim, then I could see how difficult it is to put tyres on compared to my current 700c rims, which should give me a better understanding and depending on what I find I may buy XR2 rims in the future.

This is the first time I will have attempted to build a wheel from scratch. When I rebuilt a wheel, I measured the old spokes to know what replacement spokes to use. This time I have to work it out. BTW: The wheel I rebuilt before seems fine, and has not gone out of true or had other problems.

According to: https://leonard.io/edd/ the spokes should be 299mm for 3 cross lacing pattern (which is what I plan to use). This seems quite long. My Shimano 105 front hub has "HB-5700" printed on it, so I presume the hub choice I've used on the site is correct. The 610mm ERD for the rim is from SJS Cycles. I think I"m going to hunt out my calipers and double check the hub measurements.

Screen Shot 2016-08-20 at 10.49.51.png
Brucey
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Re: Mavic Open Elite vs. Open Sport Rims vs CXP Elite Rims

Post by Brucey »

531colin wrote:...H plus son Archetype?....nice rim, maybe a bit wide and spendy?
Exal XR2.......cheap as chips, a deeper well would make tyre changes easier.


I think that your assessment of those rims is about right.

I don't see why it should be so complicated to make a rim that doesn't cost a fortune, tyres fit onto consistently, is reasonably strong, and that lasts more than five minutes because the braking surfaces are not wafer-thin. I realised (belatedly) that the CXP22 was a pretty good rim in those regards.

I can't help but think of the old Mavic Module 3 rim; that weighed just over 500g and it had braking surfaces that were 2.0mm in thickness. The expected life of those rims was about x3 vs many modern rims, just because of the braking surface thickness.

cheers
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Brucey
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Re: Mavic Open Elite vs. Open Sport Rims vs CXP Elite Rims

Post by Brucey »

Annoying Twit wrote: According to: https://leonard.io/edd/ the spokes should be 299mm for 3 cross lacing pattern (which is what I plan to use). This seems quite long. My Shimano 105 front hub has "HB-5700" printed on it...


in which case I'd agree with your calculations for 32h x3.

In point of fact most of the Open Sports I have built measured 609mm ERD (on the nose, so predict 298.5mm length with your hub) and with DT DB spokes the ends finish in middle of the slot using 609 ERD. With PG spokes I'd go to 299mm, with DB I might go for 298mm.

If your wheel was built on the same hub before with a 590mm erd rim 32x3 then the spokes should have been 289mm long.

With an Open Sport 32x2 gives 292mm and 32x1 gives 288mm so depending on whether your old spokes were a bit long or a bit short then you could perhaps re-use them.

cheers
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Annoying Twit
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Re: Mavic Open Elite vs. Open Sport Rims vs CXP Elite Rims

Post by Annoying Twit »

Thanks. I'm not re-using my old hub. I didn't realise how cheaply 105 hubs go for on ebay and accidentally won the hub about a year ago with an idle bid. While it was an unintentional purchase, it has sat out the last year harmlessly in my parts box and I've decided to use it. My current hub is a 'Joytech', and while I have to admit it has fulfilled its role adequately, I thought it sensible to use the 105 hub. The rim is the scratched one mentioned in another thread. I'm going to de-scratch it for the experience of doing so. But, I regretted, a bit, buying such a cheap bike four years ago. The wheel rims are the cheapest looking part of the bike, with a nasty looking seam on the braking surface. However, they again have fulfilled their role adequately and are not worn out, but I think it's time to upgrade. The spokes are rusty and I would prefer stainless.

TLDR: I'm not re-using any of: the hub, the spokes, or the existing rim.

Slightly off-topic: When the wheels are replaced and eventually the crankset and BB (TLDR reasons why I think they won't last forever), that will pretty much only leave the frame, forks, and handlebars original. However, what I've been able to work out about this frame suggests that while it is probably 3kg heavier than 'normal', it seems pretty indestructible. How will I talk myself into replacing it?

EDIT: I've ordered the Mavic Open Elite rim and will manually check the ERD before ordering spokes.
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531colin
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Re: Mavic Open Elite vs. Open Sport Rims vs CXP Elite Rims

Post by 531colin »

Brucey wrote:
531colin wrote:...H plus son Archetype?....nice rim, maybe a bit wide and spendy?
Exal XR2.......cheap as chips, a deeper well would make tyre changes easier.


I think that your assessment of those rims is about right.

I don't see why it should be so complicated to make a rim that doesn't cost a fortune, tyres fit onto consistently, is reasonably strong, and that lasts more than five minutes because the braking surfaces are not wafer-thin. I realised (belatedly) that the CXP22 was a pretty good rim in those regards.

I can't help but think of the old Mavic Module 3 rim; that weighed just over 500g and it had braking surfaces that were 2.0mm in thickness. The expected life of those rims was about x3 vs many modern rims, just because of the braking surface thickness.

cheers


I think people are heavier and use narrower tyres pumped to higher pressures than when Mod 3 was current. So tyres are a tighter fit, and "old" types of extrusion (XR2, Chrina) are from a time when you didn't need such a deep well in order to get the tyres on and off easily. I expect Mod 3 is a lot less stiff than modern rims, and it might be "interesting" to try to build a stable 11 speed 130mm OLN wheel with a Mod 3.
SpannerGeek
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Re: Mavic Open Elite vs. Open Sport Rims vs CXP Elite Rims

Post by SpannerGeek »

Brucey wrote:
SpannerGeek wrote:Does anyone know if there are one of these new Mavic rims compatible with the Ambrosio fcs 28 road rim? I've recently trashed it and I think the '28' stands for 28mm deep? Lots of 30mm deep rims, but I'd prefer to re use the spokes from this wheel as it's done very low miles before the eyelet split.


fcs28 has ~590mm ERD. I think this isn't a match for the Mavic rims. However if you had the old wheel built x3, you might be able to build it x2 with the same spokes and a larger ERD rim.

Out of interest where is the bad eyelet in your fcs28 rim (with respect to the valve hole/rim join)?

cheers


The bad eyelet was two from the join.
Brucey
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Re: Mavic Open Elite vs. Open Sport Rims vs CXP Elite Rims

Post by Brucey »

SpannerGeek wrote:The bad eyelet was two from the join.


that is pretty much what I expected you to say. Chances are that the rim had a high spot at the join, and when your wheel was built, the wheelbuilder chased it down, almost regardless of spoke tension required.

So rims with high spots tend to fail near the join, and rims with low spots (at the join) tend to fail about four spokes away from the join (roughly, in a 32 spoke wheel).

I think if the rim is radially stiff (and may modern rims are) it would be a better idea to keep the spoke tension within limits and let the rim have a 0.5mm flat (or high) spot, if that is what the shape of it is.

cheers
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