Thinking of more gears

[Brucey]

maybe it applies somewhat less where you are than where I am, but I always look to what kind of gear I should be using when I'm tapping along, if the chainline is good, if the IGH is working efficiently, and if the sprockets and chainring are liable to last well or not.

'Tis undoubtedly the nature of the beast when you have small wheels, but if my 65"-70" gears are crosschained or on small sprockets it makes me wonder if there isn't a better scheme or not.

In the case of your proposed gears you have a good spread in the middle IGH ratio but I would spend a lot of time on 53/14, and a 14T sprocket is one that (IME) tends to wear fairly quickly. I wonder if something like 58-45/12-28 wouldn't give you 58/15 as a tapping along gear and a similar spread? It'd cost you about 2" in the lowest gear I suppose, but you would have a chance of getting some of that back again if you could run 12-30T instead (shimano mechs often will, even when they say 28T is your lot).

cheers

[breakwellmz]

One small point -> • Compatible with standard MTB/ATB 9 and 8-speed cassettes.
So you may loose your lowest gear .........

I was worried about that, but looked it up.

SJS have them, and there's a Q&A section.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hubs-intern ... e-hub-36h/
Screen Shot 2017-01-07 at 09.36.48.png

You will be familiar with these i assume Mick?-
http://www.bankruptbikeparts.co.uk/inde ... ct_id=2315
Probably better made and cheaper than the SA equivalent if you were going down that route.

[Brucey]

FWIW the SA, current SRAM dualdrive, and the Shimano Intego all come as 135mm OLN. The shimano and SA hubs can be respaced to 130mm (by removing stuff from the LH side), but

a) the wheel dish gets pretty bad; the SA hub has 14mm difference between the flange spacings in 135mm which becomes ~19mm once respaced to 130mm. I guess this is OK with small wheels since the bracing angle of the spokes is still pretty good, but threadlock on the LH spokes would be prudent.

b) The shimano hub uses a roller brake cover/dust shield assy on the LH side beyond which is only one thin locknut. If you want to remove 5mm from this hub, you will probably lose the dust shield entirely. IIRC on most shimano hubs with this arrangement, there is no other seal, and if the covers are removed, there is actually a gap allowing crud into the bearings.

Note also that whilst the Intego hub is available cheaply NOS right now, spares backup for it is likely to be very limited.

cheers

[Mick F]

Thanks Brucey,
Wisdom as ever!
All this in the melting pot at the moment, so there's time for lots of planning and stuff.
I don't care about wheel dish really. The small wheels aren't so susceptible to it I reckon.

You will be familiar with these i assume Mick?-
http://www.bankruptbikeparts.co.uk/inde ... ct_id=2315
Probably better made and cheaper than the SA equivalent if you were going down that route.

Thanks! I never thought about Shimano hub gears.

Sounds good, but will it take 10sp cassettes?
Any saving in buying it would be eaten up in changing my system and buying new parts.

[AM7]

I've used both the Sturmey and Shimano hybrid cassette 3 speed hubs. The Shimano Intego has a much smoother shift than the Sturmey, and it does take a 10 speed cassette as I have one on mine. However, as Brucey says, parts for the Intego are next to impossible to get. For example, the hub sold by Bankrupt Bike Parts doesn't include the pushrod (I bought mine from there about 3 years ago). At the time I bought mine, I was able to buy the pushrod from Germany, but when I looked to buy a spare a few months ago, I was told the part was discontinued. It probably wouldn't be too hard to fashion a suitable substitute but it's an extra layer of hassle.

Also, both the Shimano and Sturmey hubs are designed to be used with flat bars shifters, although it's possible to improvise something if you use drop bars (I use a Campg Escape front Ergo shifter and the six clicks work pretty well with the 3 gears on the Intego - 2 clicks per shift)

[breakwellmz]

I had assumed they would be the same as a standard 3 speed hub, if so-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-NEXUS ... XQdohREseU

I`ve been running a Nexus 4 speed for some time which is even harder to get spares for if i ever needed them.It wouldn`t stop me snapping another one up tomorrow despite that.

[AM7]

No, the Intego pushrod is longer than the ones on standard Nexus 3 speeds though, as I say, I would guess it wouldn't be too hard to make your own if needs be.

[Brucey]

IIRC the shimano 3s hubs use a pushrod with a spring in. I guess the Intego one is like that too? If so, there are certain shifter movements that would be possible with a genuine pushrod but a non-spring preloaded one wouldn't offer the same functionality.

In particular there would be no limit to the force that could be generated that is trying push the bellcrank box off the end of the axle.

cheers

[Mick F]

I've been looking on the 'net and trying to find a SA 3sp CS-RF3 in 28h.
Can't seem to find any, though they are listed by SA themselves.

I want 28h to go into the existing wheelset. Seems pointless fitting a new rim as well.

I've asked a question on SJS.

[ANTONISH]

I first saw an example of this type of setup sixty years ago.
4sp SA coupled with 5sp block and triple chainset. It seemed to work - amazingly low gear for the time.
More recently about 15 yrs ago, I was on an audax and one rider had a 4sp SA coupled with a 5sp wide ratio block ( single chainring).
I wonder how the overall mechanical efficiency compares.

[Mick F]

I wonder how the overall mechanical efficiency compares.

So do I.
I think I'll be spending much of the time in 2nd gear - direct drive - so it may not be an issue.

Many years ago as a yoof, me and my mate fitted two cogs to our SA 3p on our bikes. Quite a novelty! six gears!
Can't remember the cog sizes, but the standard 3sp on our bikes was transformed with high and low ratios.

In 2010, I converted my Raleigh Chopper to similar gearing, but used a double chainset too giving a choice of twelve ratios. It allowed me to do the JOGLE on the damned thing and at the same time towing my trailer. You needed a good feel for the gearing with three controls and predicting which changer to use and when, and if you needed to change two at once. Top gear was only 78.3" and bottom 22.5". Bottom was fine, and top too TBH, but the steps were narrow between rings/cogs. 52/42 chainset and 28/18 cogs.

If my plan goes ahead with my Moulton, the ratios will be much further apart than on the Chopper, so I doubt I'll have the same issues.

[ANTONISH]

[quote="Mick F")
In 2010, I converted my Raleigh Chopper to similar gearing, but used a double chainset too giving a choice of twelve ratios. It allowed me to do the JOGLE on the damned thing and at the same time towing my trailer. You needed a good feel for the gearing with three controls and predicting which changer to use and when, and if you needed to change two at once. Top gear was only 78.3" and bottom 22.5". Bottom was fine, and top too TBH, but the steps were narrow between rings/cogs. 52/42 chainset and 28/18 cogs.

If my plan goes ahead with my Moulton, the ratios will be much further apart than on the Chopper, so I doubt I'll have the same issues.

[/quote][/quote]

Well you're a braver man than me Mick. The ratios though, seem to me to be quite satisfactory for touring.
Also I think a complicated set up as you describe may well be more suited to the more leisurely pace of touring ( not the I could describe riding a chopper with a trailer as leisurely ) - trying to sort the gears out in a timely manner on a club run may be more difficult.

[Mick F]

- trying to sort the gears out in a timely manner on a club run may be more difficult.

Oh, I agree completely.

If I want a fast ride, I'll get on the Mercian, but I'm really REALLY enjoying the relaxed comfort of the Moulton. It's given me a whole new outlook on riding for pleasure and relaxation.
Just come back from a ten mile ride in the rain, and I understand there's snow forecast for later this week.

No reply as yet from SJS regarding the 28h SA 3sp, but it's still only Monday morning.
Unless I can find one, the whole idea is off.

[[XAP]Bob]

If SA do one then it might be worth asking Practical Cycles (I know they've built a couple of 36h ones for other forum members - me included)

[Mick F]

Thanks.
They have them, but list them as 36h just like SJS do.
http://practicalcycles.com/products/245 ... brake.aspx

I'll wait to see what SJS say, and if they don't/can't, I'll ask Practical Cycles.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hubs-intern ... e-hub-36h/

SA say they are done in 28h, so they must exist somewhere.
http://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/produc ... rf3-silver