Disc Brakes - less cleaning/cheaper?

[531colin]

Rigida Carbide rims wet braking is much better with regular red KoolStop pads than with the "special" pads.......probably best to use the hard pads when the rims are new and abrasive, though.

[PH]

Rigida Carbide rims wet braking is much better with regular red KoolStop pads than with the "special" pads.......probably best to use the hard pads when the rims are new and abrasive, though.

Exactly that, I've got two pairs of Grizzly Carbide wheels and when new with Swisstop blue pads the braking was OK but not brilliant, now they've worn smooth I've switched to Koolstop Salmon and the braking is as good as with any other rim brake.

[geocycle]

Rigida Carbide rims wet braking is much better with regular red KoolStop pads than with the "special" pads.......probably best to use the hard pads when the rims are new and abrasive, though.

Exactly that, I've got two pairs of Grizzly Carbide wheels and when new with Swisstop blue pads the braking was OK but not brilliant, now they've worn smooth I've switched to Koolstop Salmon and the braking is as good as with any other rim brake.

Yes big fan of rigida carbide rims here. I replaced one after 21,000 miles this year as I had the rohloff serviced, the front is still fine and his 22,000 on it. Personally I've found them as good as normal rims for braking and never had a problem in the wet but others have and I agree with Colin and PH that a softer compound would help when worn.

[Mr Evil]

It would be interesting to know how you made the switch and how much this cost.

I built a whole new bike (the one in my sig), so it's hard to say how much the disc brakes cost vs rim brakes.

[cycle tramp]

By the by, i have sometimes wondered if steel rims might be good for an extreme expedition bike where sheer toughness was a priority and you were prepared to go very slow or just stop/chill if rain should become a significant issue. Some parts of course, rain would be rare. Steel rims - the next big thing?

H'mm... I like your thinking. I'm currently using SA hub brakes, but a third rim operated brake (operated by a friction lever) may be useful for very long down hills. If the wheel rim was steel, it would take longer to wear and be better coping with the generated heat build up

[horizon]

It would be interesting to know how you made the switch and how much this cost.

I built a whole new bike (the one in my sig), so it's hard to say how much the disc brakes cost vs rim brakes.

Thanks for that. For many people the choice of brakes is really one that comes with a new bike. The trouble is that some people never buy a new bike - wheels are swapped, the frame is swapped, the brakes are swapped but not at the same time. So this may create an inertia against disc brakes whatever their advantages.

[reohn2]

Hi, my first post here.

Welcome

I use rim brakes at the moment, and am only persuaded by disc with the idea of less rim cleaning, less wheel building, and also less expensive seeing as V rims are getting hard to find.

Can anyone suggest how much time/money is saved??

Money saved is mostly down to pads in the short term and rims in the longer term.
I don't thing there's a problem finding rim brake rims TBH.
As for use,discs stop better in mucky and wet conditions with more predictable and better modulation than rims in those conditions,V's can also grab a slow speeds when wet.
To stop 98 to 10kg of me and bike 160mm rotors are quite sufficient and you could even go down to a 140mm on the rear as it's easier to lock up than the front.
I wouldn't look any further than Avid BB7 cable discs easy as pie to set up and maintain,and every bit as good if not better than TRP Spyke/Spyres.
I'd use Sintered pads(standard on new BB7 units)if you plan to ride in all weathers and conditions,Organic pads if it's a fair weather machine which stop a slightly better than Sintered but not much and don't last as long.
There'll be waaayyyy less to no rebuilding of wheels.
The bike stays cleaner longer.
Once set up right with straight true rotors maintenance is minimal needing only the occasional quirt of aerosol brake cleaner.
Pads last way,way longer than rim pads either V or DP's.
One thing to note is that new disc brakes need to be run/bedded in,and a really mucky dirty gritty ride or two helps enormously with that in less than 100 miles,with a dry clean running in period taking about 100 to 150miles.
Did I mention there's no,repeat no rim wear with discs.

[reohn2]

Rim brakes with rubber based blocks cope quietly and efficiently with stopping and controlling the passage of my 100kg mass down the steepest of hills ..... explain where disc brakes came from for bicycles .... the Engineering department ........ or Marketing ....... !!!!!!
The lycra and carbon spaceship brigade will fall for anything ... as long as it costs more .... some might say lol

When was the last time you rode a bicycle any length of time and mileage with disc brakes?

[Brucey]

By the by, i have sometimes wondered if steel rims might be good for an extreme expedition bike where sheer toughness was a priority and you were prepared to go very slow or just stop/chill if rain should become a significant issue. Some parts of course, rain would be rare. Steel rims - the next big thing?

H'mm... I like your thinking. I'm currently using SA hub brakes, but a third rim operated brake (operated by a friction lever) may be useful for very long down hills. If the wheel rim was steel, it would take longer to wear and be better coping with the generated heat build up

not really.... Iron (i.e. steel) has about half the specific heat capacity of aluminium. A steel rim would have to be about twice as heavy to heat up the same amount as an aluminium rim. Or a steel rim the same weight as an aluminium one would heat up about twice as fast .

A rim brake does not make a good drag brake; you are better off using a hub brake as a drag brake. You can plumb one in as a drag, yet still use it normally too, by using an interrupter lever as the main lever, and running the cable out to a friction thumbshifter. This way the interrupter lever is the 'normal brake' (and the friction lever is pulled against its stop) and when you want the drag you work the friction lever.

cheers

[lasyrabbit]

Tim-b, reohn2,

Thanks for your replies. That is very encouraging for me custom build idea.

The one thing I want to be clear on, is cable disc maintenance (hydro would defeat my purpose).

People say that discs are more fiddly to setup and need more regular tuning, or are more prone to squeal. Is this true or only of the cheap ones?

(I checked out the Bb 7's and they look like a quality, well priced item, so I would most likely get those).

As for the drum brake idea, they don't seem to have many options and would not give me enough power, just not suitable for quick riding.

Ceramic rims. The rigida option is nice that they are still making those. I have a Mavic ceramic on the back and normal Mavic on front. It works well. The ceramic barely needs any attention, rear pads are Aztec, which are a lot harder than Koolstops on front, and hold up strong. A few more of these rims Should keep me going until I can get this new custom job.

[tim-b]

Hi

People say that discs are more fiddly to setup and need more regular tuning, or are more prone to squeal

They're different in the way that you set them up, but no more fiddly IME than centering a rim brake and aligning the brake shoes
You need to be careful if you take a wheel out for transport; squeezing an hydraulic brake lever without the disc/spacer can be troublesome (don't know about cable brakes), and the discs can be damaged if you're careless with the loose wheel
A squealing disc brake can be spectacular but it's often contamination from maintenance, there's an article here
Regards
tim-b

PS Brucey, thanks ^^

[ChrisOntLancs]

squealing discs are an easy fix, they just need cleaning every now and then, much like rims. in fact i've been told that the contamination is often leaked brake fluid, which won't be a concern to you.. if that is true.

i'd say any discs are an improvement on rims, comparing my barely entry level brakes to any rim brakes i've ever tried. i get the purist argument, but... they're just better! the roads usually wet, and even if it isn't my discs dont go out of true like my wheel can.

i do agree that the industry is constantly trying to sell technology to consumers that don't need it and probably wouldn't even want it if it wasn't considered standard.i don't believe discs fall under that category though. maybe hydrolics are overkill, but now i've seen such riches i'm not going poor (not that mechanical is poor... or even rims... maybe a right tool analogy would have been better)

be advised my input is more emotional than technical though... Bb7 is my favourite chord, 'there's a red house over yonder....'

[reohn2]

The one thing I want to be clear on, is cable disc maintenance.....
People say that discs are more fiddly to setup and need more regular tuning, or are more prone to squeal. Is this true or only of the cheap ones?

Discs are a doddle to set up once you've familiarised yourself with them.Their only bind(sorry),and this goes for all discs brakes if the rotor isn't running true,a true rotor it makes the setting up easy,out of truth and it will catch on one pad or the other,badly out of truth and it'll catch on both.
The single adjuster calipers such as BB5's,Promax Render,etc are more fiddly to set than calipers with an adjuster on each pad such as BB7 and TRP Spyre/Spykes.
The simple set up procedure for BB7's:-
Without the cable attached,and the two bolts holding the caliper to the IS mount or directly to the frame if an IS mount isn't used,should be left juusstt slack enough so the caliper will slide on the elongated slots and rock axially on the concave convex washers.
Now wind in both pads with the red adjuster knobs until they grip the rotor so the wheel can't be turned,and the rotor passes centrally through the caliper between the pads.
Tighten the two fixing bolts.
Back off each pad equally until they juusstt missing the rotor with no rubbing.
Attach the cable to the pivot arm being careful not to disturb it off it's stop.
Squeeze the brake lever hard a few times to settle the cable in the stops,slacken the pinch bolt on the pivot arm and with a pair of pliers pull through any slack in the now bedded in cable,tighten up the pinch bolt.It's a good Idea to leave the inner wire an inch or two longer than it needs be on the free dead side of the pinch bolt,and trim it back afterwards.
If there's not enough free play at the brake lever the pads can be backed off a click or two.
That's it,a doddle


The only squeal I get with BB7's is when it's damp and muggy,if I haven't used the brakes for a mile or two the first application sometimes produces a slight squeal for a few seconds max,a feathering of the brake in such situations before proper application of the brake prevents it.
I have to say the TPR Spyres I had squealed a lot when hot which I couldn't stop entirely,it was that and the adjusting system of them that made change to BB7's on that bike.

(I checked out the Bb 7's and they look like a quality, well priced item, so I would most likely get those).

They are,you won't go wrong with them.

[landsurfer]

Rim brakes with rubber based blocks cope quietly and efficiently with stopping and controlling the passage of my 100kg mass down the steepest of hills ..... explain where disc brakes came from for bicycles .... the Engineering department ........ or Marketing ....... !!!!!!
The lycra and carbon spaceship brigade will fall for anything ... as long as it costs more .... some might say lol

When was the last time you rode a bicycle any length of time and mileage with disc brakes?

Never ..... and i've never driven a Lamborghini , but i still drive cars ...... and don't feel the need to drive a Lambo ... Technology for technologies sake ??

[reohn2]

Never ..... and i've never driven a Lamborghini , but i still drive cars ...... and don't feel the need to drive a Lambo ... Technology for technologies sake ??

That's the wrong analogy in so many ways .

What sold me on discs was winter riding on tandems which go through pads and rims like a dose of salts(road salts in this case),grating pads on alu rims in wet and mucky conditions when you could feel the rims wearing down,and times of unpredictable results when the lever is squeezed causing buttocks to grip the saddle in an alarming fashion leave an indelible mark on the psyche .
We were loking for a winter tandem and a tandeming friend thought about discs,we knew the problems with hydros overheating on tandems,so to cut a long one short,we both bought Cannondale road tandems with BB7's on 203mm rotors.
The result was a revelation,predictable all weather stopping,the kind of stopping that neither of us had experienced before that beat any rim brake hands down,V's,cantis or DP calipers were crap in comparison.
Disc pads that seemed to last forever,and fantastic modulation to boot.
After one winters use my friend summed it up when he said "the more abuse I give these disc brakes the better they get",I had to agree.
Eight years down the line and now five bikes with BB7 cable discs,nothing's happened to change my mind,they're simply the best brakes I've ever had on any bicycle.
As ChrisOntLancs says above,some things on bicycles are being over technologiesed(not a real word)but cable discs aren't one of them,they're simply a better brake.