1 of 2 cantis. Which one?

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mattsccm
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1 of 2 cantis. Which one?

Postby mattsccm » 15 Oct 2012, 8:22am

After a weekend ride on a loaded bike with Mini V's I am chucking them. Have persevered and am currently using Koolstop pads.. Never been much cop and now a 70 mile ride with plenty of hill and 15 miles of tow path was just too much. I got home pulling the rear cable on the top tube! Shoes that were near dragging at the start were 5mm from the rim at the end! They look nasty as well!
Anyway as the bike is going soon I am reverting to cantis but am not spending money on 720's.
I have a choice. Near new Shimano low profiles, with or without the M part straddle wire or some older Dia Compes like this. http://www.flickr.com/photos/7516215@N03/6792841565/
I can use old fashion straddle wire "hooks" or wider alloy thingies that thread the straddle through.
Which of the two , in your experience is going to give the best stopping power. I actually enjoy playing with thing like this so set up is not an issue. I was well impressed but my mates Cane Creek SCX cantis which were fantastic so am treening to the Shimanos which are damn near the same.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: 1 of 2 cantis. Which one?

Postby Brucey » 15 Oct 2012, 8:38am

mattsccm wrote: ....I got home pulling the rear cable on the top tube! Shoes that were near dragging at the start were 5mm from the rim at the end!...


so are you saying that the brake blocks wore by 5mm in a single ride? If so, what would stop that from happening with other styles of cantis?

Are you sure that the cable didn't slip, or a ferrule settled or something?

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mattsccm
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Re: 1 of 2 cantis. Which one?

Postby mattsccm » 15 Oct 2012, 8:55am

Both brakes!
Nope the cables are exactly as I set them. Nothing new to maybe have an initial compress. Shimano outers. Can't remember inners but they were chosen as decent ones to try and help the brakes. Just been to give everything a once over and its 4mm actually at the back. A touch less at the front but thats enough to let the levers touch the bars. I don't know why but I just can't get on with the V's. I know thats contrary to popular experience. Its just frustating when those Cane Creeks of my mates are so solid.
Going out for a ride on the disc braked CX. Those are crap as well as I made the mistake of buying Tektros as they were standard issue with the built up version of the bike. I have become an expert on useless brakes !

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: 1 of 2 cantis. Which one?

Postby Brucey » 15 Oct 2012, 9:04am

I've had similar amounts of wear (on a single ride) only once or twice ever, and it was a very special kind of abrasive mud that did it. I made a mental note not to ride in those places with rim brakes in the future if I could avoid it. IIRC it also wore the paint off the top tube.

If the blocks are wearing that quickly then mid-ride adjustment is likely required. A brake that moves the pads further will delay that adjustment, but at the cost of a reduced MA. All else being equal the brake won't slow you down as well if the MA is lower, but maybe you have power in hand.

If you don't have easily accessible barrel adjusters fitted, I should get some; you are likely going to need them with any brake if the blocks are wearing that fast.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mattsccm
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: 1 of 2 cantis. Which one?

Postby mattsccm » 15 Oct 2012, 10:28am

Adding to my woes is a general lack of pwer anyway plus small hands that struggle to reach the levers and can only get a decent pull once my fingers are around the levers. The levers are half way back then. Built in cable adjusters do help but I guess swapping to flats would work better. Trying to avoid that for a number of reasons.
Just wondered about my options of brakes.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: 1 of 2 cantis. Which one?

Postby Brucey » 15 Oct 2012, 10:48am

have you tried crosstops?

Otherwise it sounds like you are in danger of being between a rock and a hard place. I wouldn't expect the 'conventional' cantis you are interested in to have as much power as mini-Vs, (certainly not without trying them out well...) - they may well use a shorter cable pull, which has good and bad points in your case from the sound of it.

Mad thoughts; maybe you should think of disc brakes (cable operated with sintered pads), or bigger/better drum brakes? In the future. Unlike discs, a SA 90mm drum, or a Highpath SwingCam drum will go onto many 'normal' bikes, and won't suffer accelerated wear in a single muddy ride. My experience with SA brakes suggests that they do use a short cable pull, so if they have enough power for you, you many be able to set them up with a short reach.

hth

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mattsccm
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: 1 of 2 cantis. Which one?

Postby mattsccm » 15 Oct 2012, 11:36am

Cheers for the interest.
Crosstops are ok but nasty and unstable down hill at speeeds on rough surfaces. Too narrow IME. Use discs on my other bike and they are okm but made a poor choice of model. Suspct I'll sell the canti bike and et something with dual pivots.

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531colin
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Re: 1 of 2 cantis. Which one?

Postby 531colin » 15 Oct 2012, 7:24pm

I think we had this discussion before....I still don't understand why your mini Vees are weak....I find them better than the best cantis....I certainly don't understand how you get poor performance and rapid pad wear, the two seem opposites?

Anyway, back to the cantis.

this is a mid-profile......cable anchor just above the pad...

Image

Mid profile would always be my choice of canti with drop bar levers. Set up carefully, they are reasonably powerful, and the power doesn't fall off too much as pads wear and the straddle bridge goes up.

Low profile cantis (stick up in the air almost like Vee brakes.....cable attachment well above the pads) are more powerful initally, but the power quickly falls off as the straddle bridge goes up with pad wear, and they need re-adjustment more often.

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=57410
A work in progress....Tracks in the Dales etc....photographic index...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/

mattsccm
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: 1 of 2 cantis. Which one?

Postby mattsccm » 15 Oct 2012, 10:54pm

Those are what I have and they are going on. They look nice as well.
Now how about the hook thingy on the straddle wire? Basic Shimano hooks or fancy alloy things with small allen bolt to clamp the straddle wire. The mean that the straddle leaves the main cable at a wider point and thus touch the arm at a differnt angle.
I reckon the V 's must be me. I like hard brakes with minimal lever pull.

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531colin
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Re: 1 of 2 cantis. Which one?

Postby 531colin » 16 Oct 2012, 12:06am

I don't think the type of straddle bridge makes any difference....use what you have kicking around?
A work in progress....Tracks in the Dales etc....photographic index...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/

Brucey
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Re: 1 of 2 cantis. Which one?

Postby Brucey » 16 Oct 2012, 7:43am

if the 'hook' part is too wide then the MA can drop off more quickly as the brake comes on, because the straddle wires more quickly become vertical. Thus, unless you need the wider part for clearance reasons, the narrower part would be the better one.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mattsccm
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: 1 of 2 cantis. Which one?

Postby mattsccm » 16 Oct 2012, 7:52pm

Thats what I was thinking. I have always used the wider one as they just looked tidier.


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