Worst job for the police - > motivation for enforcement?

irc
Posts: 5192
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re: Worst job for the police - > motivation for enforcement?

Post by irc »

landsurfer wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Whereas 3000 are killed on UK roads yearly.......


Staying on thread here ... 3000 cyclists killed yearly ????

"Lies, big lies and statistics .... all carry the same weight" ... Someone famous i believe ...


Probably means 3000 road users killed yearly. That is far higher than the actual figure. 1775 in 2014. Cyclists? 100-120 a year or thereabouts I believe.
landsurfer
Posts: 5327
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm

Re: Worst job for the police - > motivation for enforcement?

Post by landsurfer »

Thanks for that irc ....
“Quiet, calm deliberation disentangles every knot.”
Be more Mike.
The road goes on forever.
ian s
Posts: 121
Joined: 24 Jun 2008, 12:59pm

Re: Worst job for the police - > motivation for enforcement?

Post by ian s »

The primary object of an efficient police is the prevention of crime: the next that of detection and punishment of offenders if crime is committed. To these ends all the efforts of police must be directed. The protection of life and property, the preservation of public tranquillity, and the absence of crime, will alone prove whether those efforts have been successful and whether the objects for which the police were appointed have been attained.

The above is an excellent statement. However the fear of being caught helps considerably with achieving the first. The problem today is that there is little fear of being caught, safe in the knowledge that the consequences of being caught are also small.

Use a firearm to kill someone, or kill someone in an industrial "accident" will result in a very different sentence from using a motor vehicle to kill someone. Why?
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Worst job for the police - > motivation for enforcement?

Post by thirdcrank »

When Sir Richard Mayne wrote those words, he was one of the two original Commissioners of the Metropolis. Any traffic problems in 1829 were not the same as they are today, but the concept of the "new police" was that easily identified men (which they all were) would patrol beats regularly and by doing so they would deter most of the baddies.

It didn't always work that way, of course, so an investigation branch was formed and grew in importance and prestige. As conurbations grew and manpower could never be expected to patrol them all on foot, so the visible deterrent concept declined, to the extent that the Home Office decided that uniformed police patrols were ineffective. As I keep posting, visible police traffic patrols have a palpable effect on all but the most criminal of drivers. Traffic policing has been de-prioritised and the trend is continuing.

So, we reach a stage where bad driving is considered the norm. The "bad driving" offences, including "causing death by ...." are judged against that norm: if a lot of people are driving badly, why punish them if they have the bad luck to crash and kill somebody? (Just to make it clear: I'm analysing, not defending this.)

The system is failing vulnerable road users and increasingly, drivers who do behave well are also disadvantaged.
reohn2
Posts: 45159
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Worst job for the police - > motivation for enforcement?

Post by reohn2 »

irc wrote:
landsurfer wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Whereas 3000 are killed on UK roads yearly.......


Staying on thread here ... 3000 cyclists killed yearly ????

"Lies, big lies and statistics .... all carry the same weight" ... Someone famous i believe ...


Probably means 3000 road users killed yearly. That is far higher than the actual figure. 1775 in 2014. Cyclists? 100-120 a year or thereabouts I believe.

My sincere apologies,old stats.
So I'll revise my previous post's anomaly to 1775 yearly,which is conservative based on IRC's 2014 stats,and yes I did mean all people killed on the road.
landsurfer wrote:
Staying on thread here ... 3000 cyclists killed yearly ????

"Lies, big lies and statistics .... all carry the same weight" ... Someone famous i believe ...

If you insist on staying 'on thread' did you mean all those killed by terrorists where cyclists?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
landsurfer
Posts: 5327
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm

Re: Worst job for the police - > motivation for enforcement?

Post by landsurfer »

reohn2 wrote:
irc wrote:
landsurfer wrote:
Staying on thread here ... 3000 cyclists killed yearly ????

"Lies, big lies and statistics .... all carry the same weight" ... Someone famous i believe ...


Probably means 3000 road users killed yearly. That is far higher than the actual figure. 1775 in 2014. Cyclists? 100-120 a year or thereabouts I believe.

My sincere apologies,old stats.
So I'll revise my previous post's anomaly to 1775 yearly,which is conservative based on IRC's 2014 stats,and yes I did mean all people killed on the road.
landsurfer wrote:
Staying on thread here ... 3000 cyclists killed yearly ????

"Lies, big lies and statistics .... all carry the same weight" ... Someone famous i believe ...

If you insist on staying 'on thread' did you mean all those killed by terrorists where cyclists?


Truly beyond an answer ......
You win .... :D
“Quiet, calm deliberation disentangles every knot.”
Be more Mike.
The road goes on forever.
reohn2
Posts: 45159
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Worst job for the police - > motivation for enforcement?

Post by reohn2 »

landsurfer wrote:Truly beyond an answer ......
You win .... :D


It's not a competition,just a point of comparison.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Cyril Haearn
Posts: 15215
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Worst job for the police - > motivation for enforcement?

Post by Cyril Haearn »

1775 killed in a year, that includes only those dying inside a month after the "accident". Plenty more die later after months of torture or are permanently disabled, have "life-changing injuries" for example the loss of one or more limbs.
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Edwards
Posts: 5982
Joined: 16 Mar 2007, 10:09pm
Location: Birmingham

Re: Worst job for the police - > motivation for enforcement?

Post by Edwards »

Some strange concepts here, a driver stopped with the engine running hand brake on is committing a crime. A driver with no seat belt on is committing a crime.
It seems implied to me that both of the above should be given the same priority and resources as I was, when I was left unconscious in the road having tried to stop a robbery.

There are not enough police to deal with the problems of society so who gets the first call.

A clue the sergeant had to leave the station as well as one PC for my incident they were so short of manpower.
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar
Mark R
Posts: 643
Joined: 13 Feb 2010, 7:41pm

Re: Worst job for the police - > motivation for enforcement?

Post by Mark R »

It just goes on and on for the Police.
Drugs, child abuse and child prostitution, terrorism, domestic violence and on and on.
Then a cyclist rings up and complains they where nearly (not) hit by a car ......
mmmmmm :(


Sound like you think cyclists should just stay quiet, and enjoy their sport/hobby without inconveniencing the more important people in motor vehicles......why don't you just come out and say it?
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Worst job for the police - > motivation for enforcement?

Post by thirdcrank »

The trend away from prevention to detection continues. There's recently been spin for the introduction of a system of direct entry into the CID. Something like this is inevitable if you cut the strength of uniform patrol and fill the gaps with PCSO's, special constables and Highways England traffic officers.
9494arnold
Posts: 1208
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 3:13pm

Re: Worst job for the police - > motivation for enforcement?

Post by 9494arnold »

Haven't read all the comments.
I have been retired from Police for 11 years. Even then we were in the proverbial 'up to our buttock in alligators

(If you are up to your buttock in alligators it's difficult to remember your initial objective was to drain the swamp)

As someone said, a ' near miss' wasn't considered then, whereas (certainly locally) close passes now get investigated.
And helmet cam footage is acceptable.
Resources will always be an issue.
Yes ,death messages were pretty traumatic.
I could bore you with Negotiated Justice in a due process Legal Model ((Fixed penalty notices /Driver awareness etc)
Insurance companies have taken on non injury accidents ,the Police simply won't attend.
The roads Policing is virtually non existent . I speak to former colleagues and they don't see where it's going to
end.
Spending valuable resources investigating Crime committed by people who are dead, what's that about?
(Ok it might give some phsycological boost to a victim but is that sufficient justification?)

Rant pretty much over now :shock:
User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 10801
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: Worst job for the police - > motivation for enforcement?

Post by Cunobelin »

It is totally irrelevant as to the cause of death

The task is the same across the board, a senseless death is exactly that.... should the Police clamp down on the cause... perhaps, but how far do you take that?
Post Reply