Dogs on cycle paths - how many where you live?

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Dogs on cycle paths - how many where you live?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Bicycler wrote:I'm a driver.
We don't have motor roads in my area*.
We have shared use pedestrian, horse, and vehicle roads.
Should dogs generally wander free until another road user approaches at which point the owner can call it to heel or put it on a short lead? After all, what is the worst case? That these other road users have to STOP?
Surely not a problem unless you believe these shared roads are for time trialling.
*Actually we do have one or two :oops:

A bit ridiculous perhaps, but there's a serious point here. Surely our national cycle network ought to be a network optimised for cycling, where cycling is quick and convenient. Cycling on a cycle route shouldn't be a slower, more subservient experience than using the roads.

As a point of information, the legal status of many shared use paths is "cycle track".


I don't see what it's ridiculous. That's exactly what our road network is, a shared resource.

The tragedy of the commons doesn't require an individual to take more than their fair share, a group can - and in the case of motor vehicles, they do.

The true ridiculousness is that the road users who kill and maim are not taught and expected to be prepared to stop. They are not taught that the safety of all road users is more important than their maximum speed...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Bicycler
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Re: Dogs on cycle paths - how many where you live?

Post by Bicycler »

Oh dear Lord :)

I'm no apologist for inconsiderate motor vehicle driving. There exists - and must exist - a duty of care to those more vulnerable road users. Our highways are routes for various different types of road user and we shouldn't prioritise motor vehicles over the rest. A pedestrian should have as much a right to a convenient journey as the driver or cyclist. As such I abhor things like pedestrian crossings designed with the sole aim of minimising interruption to motor traffic. That said, we wouldn't wish to have a highway network tailored towards inconsiderate pedestrians either. We wouldn't think it acceptable to have people walking aimlessly or dogs playing around in our arterial routes holding up vehicular traffic behind. Thus, I can accept mjr's argument that our main cycle routes ought to allow similarly unencumbered passage of cycles.

Of course ossie is right to point out that many routes simply aren't designed to be wide enough for users to pass without slowing or stopping. Fair enough, we can only ride to the conditions that are present not those that we would wish to be present. I don't think this tells the full story though, many cycle routes actually do have similar traffic flows and (once we consider the narrowness of cycles compared to cars) similar effective widths to many country roads. Yet there is a different mindset of users. A pedestrian user of a country lane is not inconvenienced or unduly slowed by vehicles, but they try to keep an eye out for coming vehicles. Dogs are kept in check, not running round freely to be called to heel every time a car appears. Bob is right that roads are shared resources, but on the roads sharing seems to mean keeping an eye out for other road users for the expedience of all. On a "shared use" path it seems to mean the subservience of cycles and the right of pedestrians to act without regard to the likely existence of cycle traffic.
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john4703
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Re: Dogs on cycle paths - how many where you live?

Post by john4703 »

mercalia wrote:more than once along canal paths I have been tempted to kick them into the canal.....

I did that once, well into the river, after it bit my ankle. I have no idea if it got out again as I did not stop to find out.

My pet hate is dogs on long leads that stretch right across the cycle path.
Don't let them win but keep up the struggle and wear them all down by our persistence.
MikeF
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Re: Dogs on cycle paths - how many where you live?

Post by MikeF »

john4703 wrote:
mercalia wrote:more than once along canal paths I have been tempted to kick them into the canal.....

I did that once, well into the river, after it bit my ankle. I have no idea if it got out again as I did not stop to find out.

My pet hate is dogs on long leads that stretch right across the cycle path.
Those dog owners are very likely motorists as well. Aggression towards their dogs might encourage them to take similar action against cyclists on the road, eg close passes :wink:
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
MikeF
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Re: Dogs on cycle paths - how many where you live?

Post by MikeF »

Bicycler wrote:As such I abhor things like pedestrian crossings designed with the sole aim of minimising interruption to motor traffic. That said, we wouldn't wish to have a highway network tailored towards inconsiderate pedestrians either.
Pedestrian crossings give priority to the pedestrian. Raised crossings are even better as vehicles are forced to slow. Light controlled crossings give priority to the motor vehicle. Every adjustment of the timings of lights seems to make pedestrians wait longer in order to minimise interruption to motor traffic. Shorter timings aren't implemented.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
Bicycler
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Re: Dogs on cycle paths - how many where you live?

Post by Bicycler »

Quite, it was those ones I meant.
climo
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Re: Dogs on cycle paths - how many where you live?

Post by climo »

MikeF wrote:
john4703 wrote:
mercalia wrote:more than once along canal paths I have been tempted to kick them into the canal.....

I did that once, well into the river, after it bit my ankle. I have no idea if it got out again as I did not stop to find out.

My pet hate is dogs on long leads that stretch right across the cycle path.
Those dog owners are very likely motorists as well. Aggression towards their dogs might encourage them to take similar action against cyclists on the road, eg close passes :wink:

+1
If your polite then they just might remember that. Be a twit & they really will remember that & may view all cyclists the same. Similar to the RLJ argument.
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john4703
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Re: Dogs on cycle paths - how many where you live?

Post by john4703 »

MikeF wrote:
john4703 wrote:
mercalia wrote:more than once along canal paths I have been tempted to kick them into the canal.....

I did that once, well into the river, after it bit my ankle. I have no idea if it got out again as I did not stop to find out.

My pet hate is dogs on long leads that stretch right across the cycle path.
Those dog owners are very likely motorists as well. Aggression towards their dogs might encourage them to take similar action against cyclists on the road, eg close passes :wink:

I agree, it was not thought about, it was a reaction. Maybe I should have stopped and phoned the police, and possibly an ambulance, but I reacted to shock and pain. A few weeks later there was hardly any visible damage to my ankle and now I can't even see where it bit me. I had a blood soaked sock but no permanent damage.
Don't let them win but keep up the struggle and wear them all down by our persistence.
BottomGear
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Re: Dogs on cycle paths - how many where you live?

Post by BottomGear »

There are a section of cycle paths near me where dogs easily outnumber cyclists 5 to 1. Almost all are off the lead and seldom do the owners recall the dogs when they realise a cyclist approaches. I have learnt to carefully pick my way through along these stretches but recently a woman, who had a 2 small dogs was more interested in her mobile and so just let her dogs run about all over the path, it caused a near miss and a 'sorry' from the woman, but it left me thinking of the consequences if I hit the dog.

I just think dogs should be kept under control on these shared paths, but I also think cyclists should keep speeds down too.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Dogs on cycle paths - how many where you live?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

BottomGear wrote:I just think dogs should be kept under control on these shared paths, but I also think cyclists should keep speeds down too.


Dog owners should assume that the cyclist is unable to stop, cyclists should assume that all dogs are about to see a squirrel...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
bikerwaser
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Re: Dogs on cycle paths - how many where you live?

Post by bikerwaser »

On my trips down through France on all the shared paths, when ever I encountered a person with a dog they would always have it on a lead and always bring it close as I passed.
I experienced a lot of respect in many forms there. I have to say I'm getting fed up with the lack of respect in general in England.
Seriously thinking of moving.
reohn2
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Re: Dogs on cycle paths - how many where you live?

Post by reohn2 »

bikerwaser wrote:On my trips down through France on all the shared paths, when ever I encountered a person with a dog they would always have it on a lead and always bring it close as I passed.
I experienced a lot of respect in many forms there. I have to say I'm getting fed up with the lack of respect in general in England.

I couldn't agree more!
Seriously thinking of moving.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Dogs on cycle paths - how many where you live?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

[XAP]Bob wrote:
BottomGear wrote:I just think dogs should be kept under control on these shared paths, but I also think cyclists should keep speeds down too.


Dog owners should assume that the cyclist is unable to stop, cyclists should assume that all dogs are about to see a squirrel...



I was out on a ride whilst MiniBob was at a club.
And I was on the decent shared use path alongside a bypass.

Up ahead a lady with a dog on a long lead, dog on the grass on the left of the path, lady.. Yes, hugging the right of the path.

I quite easily managed to slow down and ask if I could pass, she scrambled to the left, and I thanked her as I accelerated past.
I did the same for a group of four joggers, and at a number of light controlled crossings.

The biggest problem I faced - I was probably 400 yards onto the bypass before there was an opportunity to get off the road and onto the shared use path - and that required me to stop and make a right turn where it wouldn't be expected by motorists. There was one behind me, I could use strong signalling and positioning to make it clear - and once one motorist has slowed/stopped those following are more likely to do the same.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Psamathe
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Re: Dogs on cycle paths - how many where you live?

Post by Psamathe »

I was out the other day and riding down a one track road I came across a family (mum, dad and child and not a dog in sight) walking same direction as I was riding. They were spread across the road so I slowed and said "Can I squeeze past please". Mum and child moved over a bit but Dad just would not budge and thus I had to stop walk up on the verge to get past they start again.

I think what people are disliking in this thread is not dogs as much as people who refuse to consider other people.

Ian
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meic
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Re: Dogs on cycle paths - how many where you live?

Post by meic »

bikerwaser wrote:On my trips down through France on all the shared paths, when ever I encountered a person with a dog they would always have it on a lead and always bring it close as I passed.
I experienced a lot of respect in many forms there. I have to say I'm getting fed up with the lack of respect in general in England.
Seriously thinking of moving.


Just got back from France. I was making a cup of tea at a rest stop on a shared use path. A couple walked past with their (loose) dogs paying little attention to me. I packed up got back on my bike, cycled slowly (around 8mph) past the couple with lots of room for everybody. The Alsation looked around barked twice ran up and latched onto my leg, I was going slow enough that I stayed up.
The owner didnt call it off, chastise it or offer an apology, she just offered to provide me with her details for insurance.
I wasnt bleeding and being abroad declined her offer. A couple of hours later my leg was quite swollen and purple.

I dont think that moving overseas will help. French dogs seem to bite more readily than British ones.
Yma o Hyd
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