York 'bad' cycling video

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kwackers
Posts: 10289
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: York 'bad' cycling video

Postby kwackers » 15 Apr 2014, 11:42am

Bicycler wrote:
kwackers wrote:Red lights on the other hand exist to reduce congestion and give everyone a fair bite of the cherry. They're not about safety - more accidents occur at traffic lights than pretty much anywhere else. In fact the general misconception that 'green means go' is easily the biggest risk! In contrast once the lights are removed you're simply back to a junction and the risk reduces.

Do you have a source for the introduction of traffic lights to existing junctions increasing accident rates? It seems counter-intuitive, which doesn't make it wrong but I would like to see some evidence. In many cases the original junction would have been a simple crossroads which I had thought were generally associated with high accident rates and basically verboten on new roads.

There was a paper I read somewhere - not sure if it was the TRL website or (more likely) something to do with insurers.
I'll try to dig it out.

Basically the premise is that traffic tends to speed up slightly and go 'nose to tail' through the lights increasing rear end collisions. Then there's the green light issue; motorists pull out blindly when the lights change because they mistakenly believe they have "right of way" and they'll do this even though traffic is approaching without checking it's likely to stop. Ditto turning into side roads through lights, they'll turn in without checking that their path is clear, preferring instead to keep an eye on oncoming traffic.

The 'good' bit was most of the accidents tend to be vehicle damage only (hence why I'm thinking it's an insurance paper I read), although if the 3rd party is a cyclist or pedestrian then the dynamics are likely to be very different.

Where a normal junction is fundamentally different is that there are no presumptions based on light colour. If traffic is approaching then it likely wont stop, any implied right of way doesn't change. People don't just go on green, boot it on red or stop 'prematurely' because the lights are changing.
In that respect I'd suggest it isn't counter-intuitive at all, but pretty much what you'd expect.

Chris the Sheep
Posts: 154
Joined: 13 May 2009, 1:20pm

Re: York 'bad' cycling video

Postby Chris the Sheep » 15 Apr 2014, 12:33pm

kwackers wrote:...Basically the premise is that traffic tends to speed up slightly and go 'nose to tail' through the lights increasing rear end collisions....]


If you're waiting at a red, and can't see the opposing green, one way of telling whether the lights are about to change is to watch how closely the vehicles are following, and where they're looking.

A driver who's jumped the red will often follow the car in front extremely closely,and in my experience will look straight ahead throughout!

irc
Posts: 3843
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re: York 'bad' cycling video

Postby irc » 15 Apr 2014, 9:17pm

Bicycler wrote:
kwackers wrote:Red lights on the other hand exist to reduce congestion and give everyone a fair bite of the cherry. They're not about safety - more accidents occur at traffic lights than pretty much anywhere else. In fact the general misconception that 'green means go' is easily the biggest risk! In contrast once the lights are removed you're simply back to a junction and the risk reduces.

Do you have a source for the introduction of traffic lights to existing junctions increasing accident rates? It seems counter-intuitive, which doesn't make it wrong but I would like to see some evidence. In many cases the original junction would have been a simple crossroads which I had thought were generally associated with high accident rates and basically verboten on new roads.


The TRL review of signals at junctions seems to find the evidence mixed. Page 21 on

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/do ... ssings.pdf


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