What bad luck

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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brianleach
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What bad luck

Postby brianleach » 17 Apr 2014, 8:44am

Poor chap!! If only he'd known one was a police officer he would obviously have been much more considerate!!

http://www.courier.co.uk/Marden-motoris ... story.html

james01
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Re: What bad luck

Postby james01 » 17 Apr 2014, 8:54am

And he's being given the opportunity to get his licence back after showing clearly that he's incapable of self-control! Anyway, compared with some recent sentences I suppose we have to chalk this up as a reasonable result.

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Si
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Re: What bad luck

Postby Si » 17 Apr 2014, 9:06am

That's the thing...a retest may show his driving skills but not his temperament....which is, I think, what is at issue.

MikeF
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Re: What bad luck

Postby MikeF » 17 Apr 2014, 9:20am

He has a three year driving ban, but it's not clear if that's after the ten month jail sentence. As he runs a m/c firm, he presumably has a m/c licence as well. Anyone one know what an extended driving test is?
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

thirdcrank
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Re: What bad luck

Postby thirdcrank » 17 Apr 2014, 3:55pm

We've had discussions before about judge's comments when passing sentence and I've explained that these comments are made with an eye firmly on sentencing guidelines to reduce the likelihood of a successful appeal against sentence. In that context I was pleased to read this from the judge:

“In my judgement, there is no true remorse here and no real insight. You are, and remain, a danger to cyclists.”


There seem to have been cases where a sentence discount for remorse was there for the asking.
Gang warily.

Vorpal
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Re: What bad luck

Postby Vorpal » 20 Apr 2014, 11:00am

I like that he received a ban and extended retest. It seems that drivers who kill cyclists often aren't given a requirement for extended retest.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

thirdcrank
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Re: What bad luck

Postby thirdcrank » 20 Apr 2014, 11:39am

Vorpal wrote:I like that he received a ban and extended retest. It seems that drivers who kill cyclists often aren't given a requirement for extended retest.


I don't know what's involved in that sort of test, but the problem here isn't one about technical competence but aptitude. Somebody who has been driving all their life may slip into bad habits and probably passed - as I did - under a much less stringent system than applies today, but most people could disguise a short fuse to get their licence back. It would be better if driving licence applicants were tested for psychological suitability. In the meantime, successful completion of some form of anger management course might be a good idea for people like the defendant in this case.
Gang warily.

Mark1978
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What bad luck

Postby Mark1978 » 20 Apr 2014, 11:56am

He added: “He is a hard working family man and these offences are utterly out of character.”

Somehow I doubt that!

Vorpal
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Re: What bad luck

Postby Vorpal » 20 Apr 2014, 7:32pm

thirdcrank wrote:
Vorpal wrote:I like that he received a ban and extended retest. It seems that drivers who kill cyclists often aren't given a requirement for extended retest.


I don't know what's involved in that sort of test, but the problem here isn't one about technical competence but aptitude. Somebody who has been driving all their life may slip into bad habits and probably passed - as I did - under a much less stringent system than applies today, but most people could disguise a short fuse to get their licence back. It would be better if driving licence applicants were tested for psychological suitability. In the meantime, successful completion of some form of anger management course might be a good idea for people like the defendant in this case.


Yes, that true. But my point was merely that not many people who receive bans, even after killing a vulnerable road user, are required to undergo an extended test.

Is it even possible, within current sentencing guidelines to either ban someone for life following an accident like this, or require psychological assessment before retraining or retesting?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

thirdcrank
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Re: What bad luck

Postby thirdcrank » 20 Apr 2014, 9:04pm

Vorpal wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
Vorpal wrote: ...
Yes, that true. But my point was merely that many people who receive bans, even after killing a vulnerable road user, are X required to undergo an extended test.


Is there a "not" missing somewhere there? eg where I've put the red X

Is it even possible, within current sentencing guidelines to either ban someone for life following an accident like this, or require psychological assessment before retraining or retesting?]


Really long driving bans were ruled out by the European Courts in the late 1960's. I don't think a psychological assessment can be imposed - I was suggesting it should be possible. Better still, it should be part of the requirements for a driving licence, without waiting till a driver has been convicted of injuring or even killing somebody, but it seems more politically acceptable in the latter type of case. I'm no expert on sentencing options, but I do know that anger management could form part of what used to be called a Probation Order. As to whether a few months inside make a short-tempered person less so, I don't know.

PS Only use the word "accident" with circumspection.
Gang warily.

Vorpal
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Re: What bad luck

Postby Vorpal » 20 Apr 2014, 9:07pm

thirdcrank wrote:PS Only use the word "accident" with circumspection.


I should know better. I usually use 'incident'. :oops:
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

ANTONISH
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Re: What bad luck

Postby ANTONISH » 21 Apr 2014, 4:59pm

I have no sympathy for this character - and there are too many like him.
However in these circumstances I think it's best to "single up".
As this incident shows, making a motorist angry ( and there are many on a short fuse) can have dire consequences for other cyclists he may encounter.
In France you are only allowed to cycle two abreast if you are not hindering other road users.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: What bad luck

Postby [XAP]Bob » 21 Apr 2014, 6:22pm

ANTONISH wrote:I have no sympathy for this character - and there are too many like him.
However in these circumstances I think it's best to "single up".
As this incident shows, making a motorist angry ( and there are many on a short fuse) can have dire consequences for other cyclists he may encounter.
In France you are only allowed to cycle two abreast if you are not hindering other road users.

"not hindering" Since there either is or there isn't room to overtake us whether we are single or double there is no hinderance...

Traffic is always slowed by other traffic
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way.
No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
A good pun is it's own reword

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Tizme
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Re: What bad luck

Postby Tizme » 22 Apr 2014, 3:09pm

On Sunday I took part in the Lainston House Hotel Sportive, not a huge event, and we were on mainly country lanes/B roads. At one point there was a group of around 9 riders together, all 2 abreast and cracking on at about 23mph, a slight split occurred, with my son and I with one other rider falling slightly off the back, this allowed a 4x4 driver to overtake, no problem, he could see the other riders and that the road ahead was not clear enough to overtake them, so was quite happy to follow, next up was an Audi, overtaking us and squeezing in to the non-existent gap between us and the 4x4(we were getting a nice draft off it!). The minute or so delay was obviously too much for the Audi driver, he decided to overtake the 4x4 and group as we all went over a short climb into a blind corner, he then (so I was told when we caught up with the group) narrowly avoided taking out the lead bike as he cut back in. Had a car approached from the other direction as he overtook I have no doubt that he would have swung in to avoid it and taken out the whole group.
A few minutes later we passed 3 horse riders, we all slowed, went on to the other side of the road and received thank you's from the riders, just beyond them we passed a T junction with 2 more horses about to join the road, we then met another 4x4 heading towards us at speed and I indicated to the driver that she needed to slow down (as the horses were just around the corner), she maintained her speed but shouted out "F*** Off" as she went passed. Perhaps when she saw the horses she might have realised why I was warning her! Is anyone really in that much of a hurry on a Bank Holiday morning on a back road?

Other than that is was a nice ride! :D

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Neilo
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Re: What bad luck

Postby Neilo » 22 Apr 2014, 4:01pm

I know this is about riding in groups but, I was out on my trike on Saturday, which is sort of like riding two abreast.
I take back all I said in a previous post about getting more room when on a trike.
I was a narrow road, so I had to ride primary most of my route.
I only got more room, ie passing me completely in the other lane, when there was nothing coming the other way, or yes they would go completely in the other lane, whilst there was a vehicle oncoming, including a cyclist oncoming. at one point
They were cutting in too close, trying to overtake me when I was overtaking parked cars, tailgating 3ft from my back wheel, horn sounding, gesticulating. I had a Land Rover pulling a large trailer, forgetting he was towing, had to brake hard to avoid getting wiped out.
I even had a motorcyclist pointing to the kerb, You would think you would get a bit more empathy from motorcyclists.
I think I had it all in one 17 mile ride.
Easter Saturday madness in the upper Swansea Valley. :roll:

Neil
If it aint broke, fix it til it is.


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