2 LeJog deaths: Death by dangerous driving charge

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thirdcrank
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Re: 2 LeJog deaths: Death by dangerous driving charge

Postby thirdcrank » 1 Sep 2014, 3:06pm

It's just a sign of how the system is creaking at the seams. For all sorts of reasons, cases are taking longer to come to trial in the Crown Court and that's in no-one's interest. In spite of bail being given in cases where it would once have been considered unthinkable, the number of prisoners waiting months (ie in custody) for their case to be heard is leading to overcrowding and all the problems that creates. OTOH, long bail periods give the opportunity for further offending and witnesses can be intimidated or get cold feet.

Too many vested interests to do much about it, I fear, but the current Lord High Whatisname (Grayling?) seems to be intent on starving out the lawyers, rather than tackling them head on.
Gang warily.

ChrisButch
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Re: 2 LeJog deaths: Death by dangerous driving charge

Postby ChrisButch » 1 Sep 2014, 4:14pm

What particularly rankles here is that, despite what must have been overwhelming evidence, given the immediate guilty pleas, he was free to drive pending trial. Surely the very least which could be expected after such events would be a requirement temporarily to surrender his licence?

NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: 2 LeJog deaths: Death by dangerous driving charge

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 1 Sep 2014, 6:44pm

Hi,
Habitual texting whilst driving, when his driving ban is over what job will he be seeking :?:
Ban should be longer I.M.O. And half the 8.5 years in jail or is that 4 in jail and only two with good behavior :?:
The rest on licience, to help with over crowding...............

Just seen on spotlight TV, the whats left of cycles on the ground is gruesome :shock: Condolences to family.
Last edited by NATURAL ANKLING on 1 Sep 2014, 8:20pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Phil Fouracre
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Re: 2 LeJog deaths: Death by dangerous driving charge

Postby Phil Fouracre » 1 Sep 2014, 7:25pm

Sorry, personally think sentence much too lenient
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

thirdcrank
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Re: 2 LeJog deaths: Death by dangerous driving charge

Postby thirdcrank » 1 Sep 2014, 7:48pm

ChrisButch wrote:What particularly rankles here is that, despite what must have been overwhelming evidence, given the immediate guilty pleas, he was free to drive pending trial. Surely the very least which could be expected after such events would be a requirement temporarily to surrender his licence?


I think this is a good point and AFAIK it's possible without any change to the law or current procedure. I don't think it's even necessary to disqualify the driver temporarily from driving: agreeing not to drive motor vehicles could be imposed as a bail condition (breach of which can lead to arrest etc.) I can't see it happening, largely because of the prolonged period on bail when a defendant like this one would be prevented from working. (That's an explanation, not a justification on my part.) The fact of his bail being renewed after the second bad driving case probably shows how strong that attitude is. I don't know what bail conditions, if any, were imposed after the charge for the later offence.
Gang warily.

reohn2
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Re: 2 LeJog deaths: Death by dangerous driving charge

Postby reohn2 » 2 Sep 2014, 10:00am

Doesn't it just stink to high heaven,he kills two,carries on driving only to commit the same offence whilst on bail,then gets 81/2 years(out in less than four) and a driving ban for 10 years after which he'll pick up his licence and carry on driving without needing to prove he's capable after such an absence.
You couldn't make it up.
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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honesty
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Re: 2 LeJog deaths: Death by dangerous driving charge

Postby honesty » 2 Sep 2014, 10:05am

He also has to take an extended driving test at the end of his ban. technically he has been sentenced a total of 16 years, its just that 2 of the 7.5 year sentences are running concurrently.

beardy
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Re: 2 LeJog deaths: Death by dangerous driving charge

Postby beardy » 2 Sep 2014, 10:06am

This was at least a significant penalty.

Not the usual symbolic slap on the wrist that is handed out for what we would call death by dangerous driving.
I think the term is long enough to act as a deterrent, if not justice/revenge.

TonyR
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Re: 2 LeJog deaths: Death by dangerous driving charge

Postby TonyR » 2 Sep 2014, 10:11am

Mitigating, Palmer's defence team said the "devoted" father of one had no previous convictions and he was aware the deaths had "blighted the lives of two families" and that he had struggled with the "enormity of what he had done".


But not aware or struggling enough with the enormity of what he had done to have not injured someone else through dangerous driving 11 weeks later.

kwackers
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Re: 2 LeJog deaths: Death by dangerous driving charge

Postby kwackers » 2 Sep 2014, 10:12am

reohn2 wrote:Doesn't it just stink to high heaven,he kills two,carries on driving only to commit the same offence whilst on bail,then gets 81/2 years(out in less than four) and a driving ban for 10 years after which he'll pick up his licence and carry on driving without needing to prove he's capable after such an absence.
You couldn't make it up.
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

TBH It's a lot better than I expected. Plus I doubt he'll just carry on driving, would you insure him? Could he afford insurance? What company would hire him as a driver?

Contrast this to the case a few months ago where the guy simply drove over a cyclist because he didn't think it was safe to stop and got let off with a slapped wrist. That case imo was criminal whilst this one was just stupid.

Postboxer
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Re: 2 LeJog deaths: Death by dangerous driving charge

Postby Postboxer » 2 Sep 2014, 10:16am

I suppose the ban isn't set to start upon release either? So really only an 18 month ban.

reohn2
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Re: 2 LeJog deaths: Death by dangerous driving charge

Postby reohn2 » 2 Sep 2014, 10:17am

kwackers wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Doesn't it just stink to high heaven,he kills two,carries on driving only to commit the same offence whilst on bail,then gets 81/2 years(out in less than four) and a driving ban for 10 years after which he'll pick up his licence and carry on driving without needing to prove he's capable after such an absence.
You couldn't make it up.
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

TBH It's a lot better than I expected. Plus I doubt he'll just carry on driving, would you insure him? Could he afford insurance? What company would hire him as a driver?

10years down the line will anyone ask about previous convictions so old?


Contrast this to the case a few months ago where the guy simply drove over a cyclist because he didn't think it was safe to stop and got let off with a slapped wrist. That case imo was criminal whilst this one was just stupid.

I'm unaware of the case in question.

kwackers
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Re: 2 LeJog deaths: Death by dangerous driving charge

Postby kwackers » 2 Sep 2014, 10:25am

reohn2 wrote:10years down the line will anyone ask about previous convictions so old?

Actually you could be right.
I'd rather assumed 'death by dangerous driving' points would hang around for a while but apparently they only last 4 years (yet bizarrely "Causing death through driving carelessly when unfit" lasts 11!).
http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/when-endorsements-and-penalty-points-can-be-removed-from-a-driving-licence

OTOH, isn't there usually a clause in insurance documents that require you to tell them of any significant bans etc (Plus in these days of computerised records they'll be well aware of your past history).
reohn2 wrote:I'm unaware of the case in question.

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/11018855.Crook_delivery_driver_who_killed_Cleadon_cyclist_on_A66_near_Stockton_walks_free_from_court/

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honesty
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Re: 2 LeJog deaths: Death by dangerous driving charge

Postby honesty » 2 Sep 2014, 10:28am

Also, he got a 25% off his sentence for pleading guilty, therefore he actually got sentenced 10 years for each charge.... whether they should be applying discounts to sentencing for guilty pleas is another discussion!

thirdcrank
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Re: 2 LeJog deaths: Death by dangerous driving charge

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Sep 2014, 10:37am

honesty wrote:.... whether they should be applying discounts to sentencing for guilty pleas is another discussion!


I think it's central to a case like this, which took so long to come to trial through the congestion in the courts. A defendant has a right to contest a charge and they cannot be penalised for doing so. The only alternative is to reward them for a guilty plea, especially an early one. The difference is only one of language, of course, but that's the way it works. One of the things that's needed is a way of getting cases weighed off pronto, especially when they are admitted.
Gang warily.


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