Vote UKIP...

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TrevA
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby TrevA » 24 May 2014, 12:12pm

Bicycler wrote:And I agree with Mick. We are not going to have a UKIP government after the next general election. However, if enough people vote for UKIP then the main political parties will have to start acknowledging the concerns people have.


But we may well have a hung parliament, with UKIP becoming holding the balance of power.

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Mick F
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby Mick F » 24 May 2014, 12:15pm

........... and I agree with Pete. :D
The thread has drifted off a bit.

However, as they have no chance of getting in, their cycling policy - even if they have one - is irrelevant.
Mick F. Cornwall

beardy
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby beardy » 24 May 2014, 12:18pm

Not really as the big parties may choose that issue as being unimportant enough to sacrifice to UKIP's wishes as a gesture, while carrying on as before on all the important things.

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Mick F
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby Mick F » 24 May 2014, 12:21pm

Yes, a hung parliament.

If we could wind the clock back to the last general election, Labour could have formed a minority government with the rest of minor parties. Cons plus Libs made a slightly bigger minority than Lab plus minor parties, so Brown capitulated and let them.
No-one has come out of this well, least of all the Libs.

I do wonder if UKIP will actually get an MP come the next election. Maybe they may get one or two, hardly enough to get into a pact into a coalition.
Mick F. Cornwall

TonyR
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby TonyR » 24 May 2014, 12:30pm

Mick F wrote:I don't give a stuff about their economic policies.
I think I heard that Farage said they don't have any policies yet.

They have no chance of forming a government to enact any policies, let alone an economic one.


That's what they said about Beppo Grillo and the Five Star Movement. The LibDems are in Government with 23% of the votes while UKIP have just taken 17%. And remember Jorg Haider's far right Freedom Party in the Austrian elections? At least vote for someone who know what they are for rather than only what they are against. The UKIP economic policy by the way is one of low taxes and high public spending.

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Mick F
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby Mick F » 24 May 2014, 12:35pm

You're confusing general elections with local elections. Totally different.

We've just had local elections in some areas, not all areas by any means.
17% of what and where?

........... and the European election results will be announced tomorrow.
Mick F. Cornwall

beardy
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby beardy » 24 May 2014, 12:40pm

TonyR wrote:
Mick F wrote:I don't give a stuff about their economic policies.
I think I heard that Farage said they don't have any policies yet.

They have no chance of forming a government to enact any policies, let alone an economic one.


That's what they said about Beppo Grillo and the Five Star Movement. The LibDems are in Government with 23% of the votes while UKIP have just taken 17%. And remember Jorg Haider's far right Freedom Party in the Austrian elections? At least vote for someone who know what they are for rather than only what they are against. The UKIP economic policy by the way is one of low taxes and high public spending.


I am no supporter of UKIP but I think they have made it absolutely clear that they are for leaving the EU.

I am for remaining in the EU but I can see that if you want out and that really matters to you, then voting for the other parties would not help at all.

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Mick F
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby Mick F » 24 May 2014, 12:52pm

Mick F wrote:We've just had local elections in some areas, not all areas by any means.
17% of what and where?
Just tried to look up some facts.

There are 433 local councils in UK.
The vote yesterday was for 162 of them in England.
UKIP have not won a single council, but increased their seats at the expense of the Cons, Labs and Libs.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby downfader » 24 May 2014, 12:53pm

Bicycler wrote:And I agree with Mick. We are not going to have a UKIP government after the next general election. However, if enough people vote for UKIP then the main political parties will have to start acknowledging the concerns people have.


Sometimes those concerns can be wrong. Look at the Yougov polls on how the UK sees immigration: people have a perception that defies reality. I have to say I find it odd how UKIP seem to support the TTIP agreement... an agreement that is throwing powers away from the UK, oddly enough. At best they've remained mostly silent on TTIP.

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al_yrpal
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby al_yrpal » 24 May 2014, 1:52pm

Its hilarious to see all the big political names furiously back peddling and giving respect to UKIP voters. They hadn't realised that calling UKIP racists instantly infuriated anyone who sympathised with controls on immigration and unfairly branded them racists too. I voted UKIP to kick these people in the nuts. They promised referendums which they reneged on, they dragged their feet on EU reform too, as Farage says they are just a load of PPE grads who don't live in the real world. Although I have voted all my life I don't feel I have ever had anyone to vote for.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. CTC gone but not forgotten!

Bicycler
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby Bicycler » 24 May 2014, 2:45pm

downfader wrote:
Bicycler wrote:And I agree with Mick. We are not going to have a UKIP government after the next general election. However, if enough people vote for UKIP then the main political parties will have to start acknowledging the concerns people have.


Sometimes those concerns can be wrong. Look at the Yougov polls on how the UK sees immigration: people have a perception that defies reality..

Oh, I'm sure but the mud-slinging approach of patronisingly telling people they are just bigots and racists or they just don't understand is not the way forward. The "we know best" attitude of the main political parties is simple arrogance. It is the job of elected politicians to represent the views of the electorate, not to dictate to the electorate which views are acceptable. Regardless of where any of us stands on issues such as the EU and immigration, these are important issues to a good number of voters and therefore they should be important to politicians. That is not to say that there should be any rash decision making. There is a need for reasoned discussion of these issues, reflecting their importance to a large number of voters.

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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby downfader » 24 May 2014, 3:13pm

Bicycler wrote:
downfader wrote:
Bicycler wrote:And I agree with Mick. We are not going to have a UKIP government after the next general election. However, if enough people vote for UKIP then the main political parties will have to start acknowledging the concerns people have.


Sometimes those concerns can be wrong. Look at the Yougov polls on how the UK sees immigration: people have a perception that defies reality..

Oh, I'm sure but the mud-slinging approach of patronisingly telling people they are just bigots and racists or they just don't understand is not the way forward. The "we know best" attitude of the main political parties is simple arrogance. It is the job of elected politicians to represent the views of the electorate, not to dictate to the electorate which views are acceptable. Regardless of where any of us stands on issues such as the EU and immigration, these are important issues to a good number of voters and therefore they should be important to politicians. That is not to say that there should be any rash decision making. There is a need for reasoned discussion of these issues, reflecting their importance to a large number of voters.


Perhaps read what John Denham said about UKIP, or even Cameron had to say recently with "I get it". If you hold on to views despite overwhelming evidence, does that not make you a bigot? No, it is not the job of politicians to represent the electorate's views, it is their job to act in their interests.

No referendum was or has been promised on the EU except by UKIP or if the Tories win 2015. If people want their view represented then they need to engage with politicians more (eg actually vote!) and tell them on-mass that they desire a greater series of referendums instead of powers delegated to MPs and Government.

After all - thats why you elect an MP - to take those decisions so we dont have to.

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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby downfader » 24 May 2014, 3:19pm

al_yrpal wrote:Its hilarious to see all the big political names furiously back peddling and giving respect to UKIP voters. They hadn't realised that calling UKIP racists instantly infuriated anyone who sympathised with controls on immigration and unfairly branded them racists too. I voted UKIP to kick these people in the nuts. They promised referendums which they reneged on, they dragged their feet on EU reform too, as Farage says they are just a load of PPE grads who don't live in the real world. Although I have voted all my life I don't feel I have ever had anyone to vote for.

Al


May I ask - then why vote UKIP if there are more people-centric parties? For example the Green Party - pro working rights, fair trade deals, fair pay, anti the large corps power grabs, whilst they havent implicitly agreed to an EU referendum they are open to it.

If you vote for a party you dont support the ideology of does that not risk causing wider implications? Not that UKIP were ever going to take over Britain thursday there have been issues with a few of their councillors in the past.

grani
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby grani » 24 May 2014, 3:28pm

I'll just say that as an immigrant in Britain it is getting increasingly uncomfortable here. I think I have contributed significantly to society in the 10 years I have lived here and paid my taxes.

The people I work with and socialize with are generally fine but the media is generally full of stories how I should be gotten rid off. The mere suggestion that you can vote UKIP and claim any sort of moral or political excuse is an insult to anyone's intelligence.

When I see this thread or any mention of BNP, EDL or UKIP it makes me fear for my future as a provider for my family and a citizen of this country. Hope that is clear enough.

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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby Edwards » 24 May 2014, 3:37pm

grani wrote:I'll just say that as an immigrant in Britain it is getting increasingly uncomfortable here. I think I have contributed significantly to society in the 10 years I have lived here and paid my taxes.



The people I work with and socialize with are generally fine but the media is generally full of stories how I should be gotten rid off. The mere suggestion that you can vote UKIP and claim any sort of moral or political excuse is an insult to anyone's intelligence.



When I see this thread or any mention of BNP, EDL or UKIP it makes me fear for my future as a provider for my family and a citizen of this country. Hope that is clear enough.


Apart from me being of British decent I agree whole heartedly with this statement.

If you want to protest then write NO in the box for the candidate you like the least. Spoiled votes are now being taken very seriously.
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