A bit of a death wish?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
beardy
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Postby beardy » 10 Jun 2014, 11:18am

They could always do what motorists do now and just squeeze past in the same lane, giving even less clearance as they are so precise and unaware of the effect of the wind turbulence.

kwackers
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Postby kwackers » 10 Jun 2014, 11:22am

beardy wrote:They could always do what motorists do now and just squeeze past in the same lane, giving even less clearance as they are so precise and unaware of the effect of the wind turbulence.

If I was on a dual carriageway I'd be in primary - and even more so with such tech around.
It's early days but I've no doubt (particularly with a bit of refinement) that it'll work pretty well. Certainly can't be worse than the current crop of myopic sun blinded drivers we have on the roads.

beardy
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Postby beardy » 10 Jun 2014, 11:29am

I am pretty assertive and my dual carriageways are not that full when I ride but I can not go the whole primary. Urban DCs are slower and more easy to hold primary on.

Imagine your standard block of vehicles doing 70+mph all nose to tail, they could not cope with a slow moving vehicle blocking one lane, it would almost certainly lead to a pile up or squashed cyclist at the speeds I am doing (uphill especially) and rather than pointing out the poor driving it would be considered the cyclists fault just for being there.

A recumbent can hold a higher speed and could go for primary for much more of the time.

Rob Archer
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Postby Rob Archer » 10 Jun 2014, 12:04pm

One point that's not yet been made is that sometimes there's no alternative to using a dual carriageway as the non dual carriageway route or cycleway is either far longer or inaccessible on a velomobile. They're rarely pleasant but sometimes there's no viable alternative. The only risk that I find greater is the draught from speeding lorries can throw you around a bit if you're not on the ball. As an aside, are velomobiles more or less sensitive to crosswinds than an unfaired recumbent?

Shootist
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Postby Shootist » 10 Jun 2014, 12:07pm

meic wrote:I was chatting to a guy on another Forum who said he had ridden from Milton Keynes to Carmarthen to visit his brother, it had only taken him one day. That journey would be a push for me to do in two days.

He explained that he just rode the A40 the whole way on his recumbent. He does that sort of thing on a regular basis and claims that he has little trouble at all. If people want to use cycles for serious personal transport, instead of running to the car with the slightest excuse, then we need to be able to use the flat direct routes that the Dual Carriageways monopolise.
Other wise it is just recreational or town use that bikes are good for and a car/mcycle is still required.


If I tried to cycle such a distance in a day, or even two, I reckon the result would be a fatality one way or the other! :shock:
"Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne.

The most stupid incription for your headstone. "I had compete right of way over that lorry."

Edwards
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Postby Edwards » 10 Jun 2014, 12:38pm

The post about cars in front of vans got me thinking about how visible recumbents are and remembered a discussion about riding one on country lanes. I can not find it but the basic gist was some people who do not ride them said they would not try them as they thought they could not be seen.
People who ride them said no real problems, so I wonder how much this is about how recumbents are perceived?
Or is it just a problem for all pedal vehicle users on dual carriageways as in the Time Trial thread. When somebody wanted them banned because he would not ride on this type of road?
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 10 Jun 2014, 1:02pm

Edwards wrote:The post about cars in front of vans got me thinking about how visible recumbents are and remembered a discussion about riding one on country lanes. I can not find it but the basic gist was some people who do not ride them said they would not try them as they thought they could not be seen.
People who ride them said no real problems, so I wonder how much this is about how recumbents are perceived?
Or is it just a problem for all pedal vehicle users on dual carriageways as in the Time Trial thread. When somebody wanted them banned because he would not ride on this type of road?


That's exactly it.
After all a motorcyclist could just as easily be taken out by someone pushing to get past a lorry before turning off the road.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way.
No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
A good pun is it's own reword

There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

TonyR
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Postby TonyR » 10 Jun 2014, 1:44pm

Shootist wrote:
TonyR wrote:Of course, Shootist being the good road user he is will have slowed down until he could see what this strange orange object was on the road and then acted appropriately to wait behind or pass it.


Being a good driver I noted that the road was empty of other road users as far as the eye could see both in front and behind. I had already noticed that the road was a dual carriageway, so I moved into lane 2, rather excitedly at such an opportunity, and passed this other vehicle at the proper distance, carefully observing the nature and design of this other vehicle for future reference.

It did, of course, cross my mind that the correct thing to do would be to accelerate and pass this vehicle at the highest possible speed, with about 1/16" clearance, or even to sideswipe it as I passed. What the hell, just drive straight into it. I was worried that I might have dismayed members of this forum by not doing so and thereby challenging their blind bigotry, but hey ho, life is more important.


You see my faith in your good road sense was fully justified :smile:

TonyR
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Postby TonyR » 10 Jun 2014, 1:47pm

reohn2 wrote:And not thought ''http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10801,what's he doing on the road in that thing,I think teach him a lesson and overtake him really close to frighten him''
But surely motorists never do that do they :roll:


We cyclists reserve that treatment for the viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10801 walking on the cyclepath :wink:
Last edited by TonyR on 10 Jun 2014, 7:29pm, edited 1 time in total.

redfacedbaldfatman
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Postby redfacedbaldfatman » 10 Jun 2014, 1:49pm

Point of info: dual carriageways don't always have two lanes in either direction. The "dual" comes from having a physical divider between opposing directions.

E.g., this is a 70MPH zone in law.
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Stewart H
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Postby Stewart H » 10 Jun 2014, 2:01pm

Just chipping in with an observation, as a 50,00miles per annum White van man, Car user and Motorcyclist I find that the traffic on old dualled trunk roads tends to travel even faster faster than that on motorways, but without the benefits of hard shoulders and extended sight lines, I have not cycled on similar roads for many years and would feel incredibly vulnerable were I to do so, Hi Viz or not, Im sure it would be nice to get on a bit of nice smooth tarmac, but at what price ?

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 10 Jun 2014, 3:26pm

I wonder what the response would be to a campaign to have de facto motorways degraded to "real roads" for all road users.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way.
No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
A good pun is it's own reword

There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Bicycler
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Postby Bicycler » 10 Jun 2014, 3:55pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:I wonder what the response would be to a campaign to have de facto motorways degraded to "real roads" for all road users.

The same reaction that there is to every other initiative to make road conditions better for non-motorised traffic; bitter hostility! If the Highways agency and local councils are providing these "all purpose roads" for all road users to use then we can't exactly criticise cyclists or pedestrians who choose to use them.

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Cunobelin
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Postby Cunobelin » 10 Jun 2014, 7:51pm

Shootist wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:Would it be really pedantic to point out that contrast is the important thing about visibility.

Against a grey road surface the maximum visibility would be achieved by a white fairing HiViz would be counter productive


No, not pedantic, but rather more sensible than the trite, artless, and frankly quite stupid post you made previously. But then you can quote research that white is the best high vis colour for all road conditions. Or would you pass a law that limits such vehicles to grey or black road surfaces only?




So can we get this right.....


This is a perfectly valid, common sense post that puts the blame for any accident on the cyclist......

But, here's my point. It seemed to me a very dangerous place to ride such a machine. It was relatively safe, IMO, at the time I was passing, but I could imagine several traffic scenarios where it wouldn't be. Now, I have no doubt that there will be howls of protest about the right to ride on dual carriageways, the responsibilities of other road users, and all the common objections. But who is the one that is going to end up in ICU if he's lucky, or in the Crem? I would advocate some very high vis accessories at the very least. I also now expect further howls of protest about the need for high vis items. But consider this, what if the vehicle I saw had been painted dark grey to match the average road surface?

We can all talk theory about responsibility of drivers, but there is little point in doing so when practice results in 50 yards of cyclist stained tarmac.


Yet applying the same criteria and reasoning to a family car is stupid, trite and pathetic?

But, here's my point. It seemed to me a very dangerous place to drive such a car. It was relatively safe, IMO, at the time I was there, but I could imagine several traffic scenarios where it wouldn't be. Now, I have no doubt that there will be howls of protest about the right to drive a small family car on dual carriageways, the responsibilities of other road users, and all the common objections. But who is the one that is going to end up in ICU if he's lucky, or in the Crem? I would advocate some very high vis accessories to increase tis car's visibility at the very least. I also now expect further howls of protest about the need for high vis items on cars. But consider this, the vehicle I saw was in fact painted dark grey to match the average road surface?

We can all talk theory about responsibility of drivers, but there is little point in doing so when practice results in 50 yards of family stained tarmac.



I think that your post and attitude says all that is needed on the subject........

beardy
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Postby beardy » 10 Jun 2014, 7:58pm

There are two differences that make a lot of difference.

Even the flimsiest car offers considerably more protection to its occupants than does a Velomobile.
Even the slowest car (normally mine) will be much nearer to the speed of the "Audi on autopilot" than it is to the speed of the Velomobile.

Add to that most Juries will think it more reasonable (as in something they themselves are likely to do) to tail end a bicycle than a car whilst driving on a DC.


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