dog causes accident

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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Si
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Re: dog causes accident

Postby Si » 27 Jul 2014, 10:18am

not everyone is cycle proficent on the trail


What's so hard about looking around, slowing down as required and leaving a gap between you and others? It ain't rocket science and doesn't take any great amount of skill!
OK, there will be a few times when something really unexpected happens (for instance when I got knocked off by an owl :lol: ) but most collisions on trails could have been avoided by a bit more thought and care by all parties.

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Graham
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Re: dog causes accident

Postby Graham » 27 Jul 2014, 11:25am

The dog owners should be able to foresee that an uncontrolled dog, wandering around however calmly, in those circumstances adds uncertainty and risk to those cycling in proximity.

Hopefully, they reacted by bringing the dog back under control and apologising to all affected people . . . . otherwise another example of selfish, ignorant, entrenched people who make life poorer for others.

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Vantage
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Re: dog causes accident

Postby Vantage » 27 Jul 2014, 11:40am

I don't know if there's a sign on the trail stating this, but the site I referenced to does indeed say to keep your speed down when on a bike and as far as I know, this is generally well known advice across the population (strava users take note :P ).
There's no reference to the girls age that I can see other than that she was little, but surely old enough to keep up a speed high enough that a sudden halt threw her over the bars. I assume all 5 cyclists to be doing the same speed or collisions with each other would have been happening long before this incident and on that basis, I'd say the lead cyclist who the rest are following is the pace setter and the one at fault because he/she set an unsafe speed for the other 'inexperienced' cyclists to follow and was the one who stopped abruptly and not in a controlled and safe manner. No?
Whether the dog was on a lead or not isn't the issue, as even a dog on a lead can get tangled in a cyclists wheels if the cyclist wasn't paying attention to what's in front of him/her. I'd go so far as to say that the whole point of bringing a dog out into the countryside is to let it off it's lead, let it run about and get some exercise. Or do I start putting harnesses on my children when out walking so they don't get in the way of a cyclist who either doesn't care about the image being given to other cyclists or just not in control of a faster moving machine? Maybe us cyclists who wobble all over the road should get off the roads in case an inattentive motorist hits us? :?
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Revolution
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Re: dog causes accident

Postby Revolution » 27 Jul 2014, 8:48pm

I had a close encounter with a dog while commuting through a council owned country park (Ashton Court, Bristol). What perplexes me is that the dog had 850 acres of woodland and grassland in which to run around. I on the other hand was traveling on the only road that cuts through this estate. It seems to me that the dog owners who exercise their pets here consider it their right to allow the animals to run free throughout and that cyclists should give them priority. Then they pack the animal into the back of a car, drive home and expect that cyclists should give them priority on the road also. :x

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Re: dog causes accident

Postby Bicycler » 27 Jul 2014, 10:11pm

This fixation with blame again :? It's just an unfortunate incident resulting from a dog (a common enough hazard) and poor cycling (ditto). I won't mount my hobby horse again but why is it that the moment we cyclists are allowed anywhere new we insist that all the other users of the path start adhering to rules of the road?
Si wrote:Should it not be all about using the paths communally and with thought to all others?

Dog owners shouldn't let their dogs wander in front of cyclists, likewise parents shouldn't let their children run out in front of cyclists, but cyclists should be aware that there will be dogs, children, wildlife, etc etc on the path that might act erratically (from their POV) and as such must be ready to deal with such situations - riding without proper observation, at too high a speed, or riding close to the person in front of you (thus your view is blocked and you have very little stopping space) is not riding in a manner that suits such a path.

If everyone starts thinking: "what might go wrong, how can I mitigate against it?" rather than: "it's up to everyone else to get out of my way so I'll just carry on regardless", such paths would be much happier places, wouldn't they?

Amen.

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Re: dog causes accident

Postby Phil Fouracre » 28 Jul 2014, 7:55am

Ooooh! I do like a good 'discussion' everyone a bit sensitive? Blame, blame, blame. Surely just a bit of consideration and common sense all round would sort this up. Shared use means just that, cycling with kids, means just that, including supervision, advice etc. Bit of personal responsibility all round?
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Ontherivet77
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Re: dog causes accident

Postby Ontherivet77 » 28 Jul 2014, 9:34am

Pete Owens wrote:If this was an incident on the road - where a cyclist had stopped for some reason (any reason) and an Audi had plowed into the back of them, then there would be no dispute whatsoever here that the Audi driver was at fault. They should be able to stop in the distance they can see to be clear.

We are talking about a shared use path - a place where pedestrians have priority and where walking dogs as a perfectly acceptable. A dog wandering erratically about a path does not constitute being out of control. "out of control" means jumping up at people nipping cyclists ankles and so on. It is up to cyclists to look where they are going and to be able to stop if necessary (whether that is for a group of pedestrians, a dog or even a cyclist stopping in front of you).

+1
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Re: dog causes accident

Postby Flinders » 28 Jul 2014, 11:46am

Ontherivet77 wrote:
Pete Owens wrote:If this was an incident on the road - where a cyclist had stopped for some reason (any reason) and an Audi had plowed into the back of them, then there would be no dispute whatsoever here that the Audi driver was at fault. They should be able to stop in the distance they can see to be clear.

We are talking about a shared use path - a place where pedestrians have priority and where walking dogs as a perfectly acceptable. A dog wandering erratically about a path does not constitute being out of control. "out of control" means jumping up at people nipping cyclists ankles and so on. It is up to cyclists to look where they are going and to be able to stop if necessary (whether that is for a group of pedestrians, a dog or even a cyclist stopping in front of you).

+1


If the dog was in control, then the owner should be prosecuted for telling the dog to run across the cyclists. You can't have it both ways.
Personally, I'd also cut a child more slack for not having judged her stopping distance perfectly for the conditions than I would an adult dog owner for not being in control of their dog. But hey, that's just me.

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Slow Loris
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Re: dog causes accident

Postby Slow Loris » 28 Jul 2014, 4:56pm

I've always felt that shared use paths mean shared responsibility among adults , regardless of the antics of animals and children. I walk my dog on a local path and have a duty of care to keep her out of harms way. On my bike on the same path I expect to slow down or stop for any dog, child, i-pod wearing adult etc. My progress is always hindered but it, at least, minimises the chance of collision. If I'm in a hurry, I'll use a different route. My father once had an altercation with a cyclist when dog-walking and each one blamed the other. Had either of them showed some care, the incident would have been avoided.
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Ontherivet77
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Re: dog causes accident

Postby Ontherivet77 » 28 Jul 2014, 8:14pm

Flinders wrote:
Ontherivet77 wrote:
Pete Owens wrote:If this was an incident on the road - where a cyclist had stopped for some reason (any reason) and an Audi had plowed into the back of them, then there would be no dispute whatsoever here that the Audi driver was at fault. They should be able to stop in the distance they can see to be clear.

We are talking about a shared use path - a place where pedestrians have priority and where walking dogs as a perfectly acceptable. A dog wandering erratically about a path does not constitute being out of control. "out of control" means jumping up at people nipping cyclists ankles and so on. It is up to cyclists to look where they are going and to be able to stop if necessary (whether that is for a group of pedestrians, a dog or even a cyclist stopping in front of you).

+1


If the dog was in control, then the owner should be prosecuted for telling the dog to run across the cyclists. You can't have it both ways.
Personally, I'd also cut a child more slack for not having judged her stopping distance perfectly for the conditions than I would an adult dog owner for not being in control of their dog. But hey, that's just me.


I'm not sure I understand what you mean, there was nothing in the original post that suggested that the dog owner intentionally instructed the dog to impede the cyclists. The point I think Pete was making is that the dog was not dangerously out of control, in fact it just sounds like it was wandering about. If you remove dog and say a sheep or badger wandered onto the path there wouldn't even be a discussion here. I'm not blaming the kid and I'm not blaming the cyclists it just seems to be an unfortunate incident.
Kenny Burrell that's the sound I'm looking for - Jimi Hendrix


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