'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
pedaller
Posts: 16
Joined: 24 Mar 2008, 7:21pm

'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby pedaller » 11 Aug 2014, 5:20pm

Until recently, I understood that the blue rectangular road sign which says 'Cyclists Dismount' meant that cyclists were advised to do this. On page 36 of the booklet 'Know Your Traffic Signs', published by the DoT, there is no mention of it being advisory; indeed it says 'Pedal cyclists to dismount at end of or break in,a cycle lane, track or route.

Would I be breaking the law if I failed to dismount? These signs are most irritating, especially when they are used on a cycle path and installed at every junction.

User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 4881
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm

Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby 661-Pete » 11 Aug 2014, 6:19pm

They are certainly not obligatory. As I understand it, all rectangular road signs are advisory only.
Pete
Warning: may contain horsemeat

Choose a password you can remember, such as qKe3?:zAbn2,7r>oOL9

Bicycler
Posts: 3397
Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby Bicycler » 11 Aug 2014, 6:52pm

They are only advisory, though obviously the intention is that you do as instructed. Obviously we don't because such signs have been ridiculously overused. Ignoring this advice could potentially provide some supporting evidence in a prosecution for careless/inconsiderate/dangerous cycling if you were to severely injure someone whilst riding where advised to dismount. But no, you are not committing an offence just by ignoring them.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 5375
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby mjr » 11 Aug 2014, 6:56pm

No, they're not obligatory. They're also usually stupid - because a pushed cycle is wider and less stable than one ridden, even at wobbly low speed, which inconveniences anyone else using the space more - and discriminatory, because they humiliate disabled people who struggle to get on/off and push adapted cycles.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

TonyR
Posts: 5374
Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 12:51pm

Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby TonyR » 11 Aug 2014, 7:30pm

They're nothing more than a CYA by the planners so if you do get knocked off crossing beyond the sign they can deny liability. Other than that they have no importance and can be safely ignored.

beardy
Posts: 3363
Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby beardy » 11 Aug 2014, 7:37pm

Just once in a while they are there for your protection, like a sudden drop (steps) ahead or a low bridge which will knock you out or some treacherous surface.

Which is what they were supposed to be used for, to warn of unavoidable hazards that if you didnt go through them would give an excessive detour. These are much, much rarer than the normal use of rendering you into a pedestrian for the planners' convenience.

User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 4881
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm

Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby 661-Pete » 11 Aug 2014, 7:49pm

TBH, there's only one sign that road authorities need to use, if they want to order cyclists to dismount. This one, which is obligatory:
Image
Pete
Warning: may contain horsemeat

Choose a password you can remember, such as qKe3?:zAbn2,7r>oOL9

User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 5869
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby Cunobelin » 11 Aug 2014, 8:08pm

I had a discussion over this with a PCSO...

He was explaining that whilst it was advisory, I should dismount as that was what was advised

I then pointed out a sign a few yards down the road.....

Image


... and asked why they were not enforcing the parking. After all the format of the sign is exactly the same, so parking must be compulsory as well.

Apparently these signs only apply to cyclists

BV1961
Posts: 38
Joined: 1 Nov 2013, 9:38pm

Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby BV1961 » 11 Aug 2014, 9:40pm

I believe blue background signs are obligatory.....they are 'must do'
Such as direction signs on one way streets and roundabouts.
I doubt if the parking sign above is an official road sign.
I think the intension of these cyclist dismount signs is intended as an instruction, but I for one will ignore them.
Planners seem far too keen to direct cyclists as second class road users....Perhaps equivalent signs for motorists would read....GET OUT AND PUSH

PRL
Posts: 485
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 9:14pm
Location: Richmond upon Thames

Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby PRL » 11 Aug 2014, 10:05pm

The draft London Cycling Design Standards lists "Cyclists Dismount" as a "sign to minimise or avoid" (together with "End of Route" and similar. )
Dawn seems to be breaking. :)

User avatar
gaz
Posts: 10597
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent

Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby gaz » 11 Aug 2014, 10:39pm

The official guidance on the sign can be found in Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 3, p157.

17.37
The sign to diagram 966 (CYCLISTS DISMOUNT) may be used together with the sign to diagram 965 (END OF ROUTE), or on its own. The sign should be provided only where cyclists are required to use a pedestrian crossing facility that they cannot legally cycle on, at the entrance to a pedestrian area, at a location with a low headroom or width restriction (e.g. a subway or bridge) or at places where visibility is restricted to such an extent that cycling would be unsafe (see also para 5.8 ). Two sizes are prescribed for the sign to diagram 966. The smaller size should normally be used, unless there is a particular hazard or conspicuity problem where the larger size of sign would be more appropriate. A non-prescribed variant of the sign to diagram 966, with the legend CYCLISTS REJOIN CARRIAGEWAY, may be authorised by the Department where this would be helpful at the end of a cycle track or shared footway


In practice I usually treat it as advisory.
It's got nothing to do with vorsprung durch technic you know...

Bicycler
Posts: 3397
Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby Bicycler » 11 Aug 2014, 10:46pm

BV1961 wrote:I believe blue background signs are obligatory.....they are 'must do'
Such as direction signs on one way streets and roundabouts.
I doubt if the parking sign above is an official road sign.
I think the intension of these cyclist dismount signs is intended as an instruction, but I for one will ignore them.
Planners seem far too keen to direct cyclists as second class road users....Perhaps equivalent signs for motorists would read....GET OUT AND PUSH

They give information, but that is sometimes stating the law and other times merely providing information or advice. I'm sure you have come across official parking signs at laybys which don't mean thou shalt park here. I'm sure you have seen pedestrian direction signs which don't mean "pedestrians shalt walk this way to the train station". I'm sure you have seen blue signs indicating cycle facilities but these do not mean "thou shalt use the cycle path".

User avatar
Redvee
Posts: 1742
Joined: 8 Mar 2010, 8:58pm

Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby Redvee » 12 Aug 2014, 12:40am

If we, as cyclists, obey the sign and dismount we then become pedestrians pushing a bicycle so the sign doesn't apply to us so we can remount, then we obey the sign............... ad infinitum :lol:

User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 5869
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby Cunobelin » 12 Aug 2014, 6:31am

Redvee wrote:If we, as cyclists, obey the sign and dismount we then become pedestrians pushing a bicycle so the sign doesn't apply to us so we can remount, then we obey the sign............... ad infinitum :lol:


Surely if you are going to treat these as mandatory, then you cannot remount without "Cyclists Remount"

Mark1978
Posts: 4885
Joined: 17 Jul 2012, 8:47am
Location: Chester-le-Street, County Durham

Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby Mark1978 » 12 Aug 2014, 8:24am

But where is the sign? Usually these are on shared pavements and the like. But cyclists are only allowed on footways by special permission, if that permission is revoked - by means of a "cyclists dismount" sign, would the rider not then be guilty of cycling on the pavement?


Return to “On the road”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Toffee and 2 guests