Shimano 8 speed bar end shifters. Which version needed?

[2wheeler]

Hi, I'm thinking about changing my shimano deore thumbshifters * for some bar end shifters on my 8 speed setup. I've spent some time researching this particular combination for compatibility and have almost convinced myself its do-able!

Any advice or anyone familiar with running this particular set up out there?


Chain: is currently SRAM PC870 (7/8 speed)

Cassette: 8 speed shimano CSHG51-8 (11/32)

Rear Mech: Shimano deore LX long cage RDT661SGS (9 speed)

Shimano bar end shifters: Ok here's the thing. I found two types of 8 speed bar end shifter. Theres the SL-BS50-8 (for 8 speed dura ace), and theres the SL-BS64-8 (for 8 speed ultegra). As far as I can see they look the same but have different pull ratios?

Will either of them work and if so which one do I need to match my 8 speed cassette and 9 speed LX rear mech? I definately want to use indexing for the rear.


* for some reason I just can't get them to index the rear mech cleanly and consistenly at both ends of travel, i.e. at both small cog and large cog? )



Thanks Gordon

[531colin]

I had 3 sets of BS 64 working on set-ups essentially similar to yours (until I moved them somewhere much more convenient...http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=57027&hilit=+skinflints&start=165 )
That's not to say the others wouldn't work, isn't it a long time since Dura Ace had a different pull?
Have you checked your mech/hanger isn't bent?

[reohn2]

8sp Dura Ace did IIRC have a different pull to the rest of the Shimano range,Ultegra definitely works with anything below Dura Ace,so I'd play safe and go with Ultegra,it's just as good anyway.

[Brucey]

Hi, I'm thinking about changing my shimano deore thumbshifters * ........* for some reason I just can't get them to index the rear mech cleanly and consistenly at both ends of travel, i.e. at both small cog and large cog? )

common problems which cause this are;

1) using 7s shifters with a 'hidden click' for 8s- this doesn't give perfect spacing (esp on 1 & 2) but it is good enough for most folk.
2) bad cables. New cables with well-prepped ends and quality ferrules may well improve matters.
3) wrong shift ratio in the rear mech. You might even have the right rear mech, but have the cable mounted wrongly on it. Many Shimano rear mechs can be run with the cable mounted two different ways; inside (left of) the pinch bolt for Dura-Ace shifters (8s or fewer), and outside the pinch bolt for everything else shimano (recent MTB 10s excepting). A 1mm variation in cable mounting is enough to throw the indexing off; check another similar mech or the SI techdoc for the correct arrangement if you are in doubt.
4) sticky thumbshifters; some Deore ones have a small amount of free play between the lever and the index mechanism; this allows for a slight overshift on downshifts, but if the free play gets sticky, all the index positions on downshifts become offset w.r.t. the upshift index positions.

BTW the ultegra shifters are a better choice for you than DA, but TBH there is no reason why what you have at present shouldn't work as well (or better).

cheers

[2wheeler]

My apologies for the delay in replying. But thank you all for the responses to my questions.

In a nutshell, I bought some BS-64 bar end shifters, duly fitted them and.. hey presto, I now have much better indexing.

I did initially try the alternate cable routing on the opposite side of the RD anchor bolt but couldn't notice any improvement.

I also checked for a bent hanger. It didn't appear out of kilter. I can well imagine it causing the problems I've experienced if it was bent. It'd effectively alter the gain ratio of the cable to RD movement.

Then (note the time order of events here!) I re-read your post Brucey and when I actually *checked* I found I have 7 speed shifters! Doh! ('cos it says "7s" on it). How did I miss that? I'd wrongly assumed my shifters were 8 speed and was unaware I really had a 7s with hidden 8th. I now believe thats where the problems were coming from.

At last! A working set up and a plausible explanation. Thank you gentlemen

One last thing about Shimanos mislabeling of the shifter boxes. When I was researching the net before buying the BS-64 shifters I came across this: http://www.jensonusa.com/!-WnYrzVyiVlruPatbm1xLQ!/Shimano-SL-BS50-64-8SP-Barend-Shifters

Its an advert for these shifters from Jenson in USA and under "description" it says "Shimanos recent packaging changes on this item are somewhat confusing." And lo, when I received the shifters the box said they were BS-50's but the shifters were actually BS-64's. So anyone referring to this thread in the future take note! Check the shifters and not the packaging they come in!

@ 531 Colin, those are some seriously nice modifications for running bar end shifters in more viable positions. I came up with a broadly similar idea for mounting my thumb/bar end shifters on a separate tube mounted approx 2 1/2 inches from the handlebar (raleigh northroad). My intention was to keep the handlebar as free as possible from clutter and mount the gear levers nearby but on their own mini bar. The end result is not quite as good as your systems for the drops. I have to move my hand off the main bar for some of the shifts which is not ideal but live-able with. The big advantage is that my hands can now roam round all of the handlebar which I find helps tremendously for keeping comfortable. Its worth the effort IMO.

@ R2, I may yet try out a 9 speed chain on this set up. I quite fancy the SRAM PC991 fully nickel plated version by SRAM. Its nearly £20. At the moment I am running with the 8 speed PC870 on which only the outer plates seem nickel coated. Oh what the heck, I should celebrate my success on the indexing front and treat it to a a shiny new chain lol

Anyway thanks gents

All the best Gordon

[reohn2]

.........@ R2, I may yet try out a 9 speed chain on this set up. I quite fancy the SRAM PC991 fully nickel plated version by SRAM. Its nearly £20. At the moment I am running with the 8 speed PC870 on which only the outer plates seem nickel coated. Oh what the heck, I should celebrate my success on the indexing front and treat it to a a shiny new chain lol......

Glad you got sorted

9sp chains:- http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/CHS ... (114_links)

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/CHS ... (114_links)

[2wheeler]

Yep, thanks me too!

My last ride was spent looking at hedgerows and listening to birdsong instead of cricking my neck at that pesky derailleur. I'm well chuffed!

re 9 speed chains:- thanks for the tip, I've pretty well decided to order one on Monday at that price. Must remember to check them out for other stuff in the future too.

All the best Gordon

[fausto copy]

I hope I can piggy-back this excellent thread please.

I've found a brand new pack of Shimano bar-end levers, complete with mounts, cable guides etc.

They're SL-BS64-8 designed for Shimano 66 Ultegra 8-speed system (as it says on the leaflet).
It also says that they're to be used with the rear derailleur RD-6401.

Is that the only derailleur that will work with them?

I have someone who may be interested but they're running 7 speed.
I'm willing to sell them and would prefer some clarification please.
Anyone else interested, keep your eyes peeled in the for sale section.

Cheers,

fausto.

[NickJP]

I hope I can piggy-back this excellent thread please.

I've found a brand new pack of Shimano bar-end levers, complete with mounts, cable guides etc.

They're SL-BS64-8 designed for Shimano 66 Ultegra 8-speed system (as it says on the leaflet).
It also says that they're to be used with the rear derailleur RD-6401.

Is that the only derailleur that will work with them?

I have someone who may be interested but they're running 7 speed.
I'm willing to sell them and would prefer some clarification please.
Anyone else interested, keep your eyes peeled in the for sale section.

Those 8-speed barend shifters will work fine across 7- or 8-speed cassettes with any Shimano MTB RD up to and including 9-speed, and any of their road RDs up to and including 10-speed, with the exception of 8-speed or below Dura-Ace, which used a different cable pull.

[fausto copy]

Thank you.

[MartinC]

Those 8-speed barend shifters will work fine across 7- or 8-speed cassettes with any Shimano MTB RD up to and including 9-speed, and any of their road RDs up to and including 10-speed, with the exception of 8-speed or below Dura-Ace, which used a different cable pull.

With the exception of Tiagra 4700 ones.

[Brucey]

Those 8-speed barend shifters will work fine across 7- or 8-speed cassettes with any Shimano MTB RD up to and including 9-speed, and any of their road RDs up to and including 10-speed, with the exception of 8-speed or below Dura-Ace, which used a different cable pull.

With the exception of Tiagra 4700 ones.

correct