Ex-Post Office CEO Paula Vennells

[roubaixtuesday]

Just out of interest:

# Is the Guardian the mirror image of any paper and if so then which one / ones?

# How, in objective terms, would you describe the Guardian?

1. Probably the Times

2. The Guardian is regarded as a newspaper of record, ie factually reliable.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gua ... 0105%2C134.

It has left leaning, "soft left" editorial position but also includes commentary from other positions eg a regular column from Simon Jenkins. Editorial and reporting are generally kept separate.

The Daily Telegraph is also a newspaper of record according to Wikipedia.

Yes indeed. The Telegraph has become increasingly extreme (or, perhaps, rather, just odd) editorially over recent years - see the "mind virus" thread for a good example - also went fairly deep into COVID denial with the likes of Alisson Pearson. It's a reflection of the increasing tendency of the right currently to descend into conspiracy ideation and denial of reality (see Truss). A tendency, I hasten to add, not historically more associated with right than left, just the current state of affairs.

[toontra]

The Daily Telegraph is also a newspaper of record according to Wikipedia.

The page clearly hasn't been updated in the last 10 years. The Telegraph is more rabid than the Mail and Express combined (which is truly saying something).

[Bonefishblues]

Worth keeping an eye on the current tussle for ownership of the Telegraph. News Agents has covered it in the last couple of weeks.

[roubaixtuesday]

The Daily Telegraph is also a newspaper of record according to Wikipedia.

The page clearly hasn't been updated in the last 10 years. The Telegraph is more rabid than the Mail and Express combined (which is truly saying something).

In editorial, yes, but it does still generally report the facts.

[toontra]

Most papers generally report the facts. With the Telegraph, it depends what you call the "editorial". Its swing to the hard right certainly goes way beyond the editorial comment section. Take a look at the lead 5 or 6 lead articles every day and you will detect a slant to news articles that veers on conspiratorial rants.

All I can say is I'm glad my parents are no longer alive to read this nonsense. They were life-long Telegraph cover-to-cover readers and I'd worry about them being exposed to what now passes for news, especially in their latter years when their judgement may have been somewhat compromised.

Disturbingly there was a vox-pop section on R4 World at One today and some of the comments were straight out of the right-wing press. They weren't based on fact because they couldn't possibly be in a position to reach those conclusions themselves - they simply weren't in a position to have access to the necessary information. It was clearly been lifted direct from scare-mongering right-wing news outlets.

[Jdsk]

The inquiry hasn't reported yet. Until that happens we don't know that anyone has "escaped any censure".

Exoneration and compensation of the victims are completely different objectives from censure and prosecution of the guilty, and it's the former where action needs to be urgent.

The recognition that the fictional portrayal has galvanised action is now widespread. It's also important that it doesn't now cause inappropriate action and the government's statements today are raising some concerns about political interference in judicial processes.

Concerns also in Scotland about blanket exoneration:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... sh-victims

Conditions announced today:
Mr Hollinrake said the new legislation would overturn all convictions that met certain criteria. It will only cover:
• convictions from the Post Office and CPS
• "relevant offences", such as theft and false accounting
• sub-postmasters and their employees or family members
• cases where the offence took place during the time that the Horizon system (and its pilots) was in operation
• cases where the convicted person was working in a Post Office that was using the Horizon system software (including relevant pilot schemes)
• cases in England and Wales
However, the government said it would work with the Scottish Government and Northern Ireland Executive to ensure their schemes to quash convictions were "compatible with the UK compensation scheme".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68369015

More details of the exoneration and compensation:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... on-scandal

Jonathan

[Carlton green]

This is all hearsay so take it as you wish …

I was out walking the dog when I came across our local sub-postmistress or rather the person who was so quite some years back. She told me that she’d lost £1000 one day and assumed that it would turn up again at some point, but it never did. She also told me that the local Federation of Sub-postmasters rep had been made aware, in his capacity as a rep, that Fujitsu had told the PO not to go live with Horizon because there were errors in it. She commented that Sub-postmasters were one of those groups of people who were so carefully screened and checked that they were - and rightly so - the last people one would expect to do anything underhand, yet that inherent honesty was totally ignored by the PO.

She sold the business well over a decade ago and our local PO franchise has changed hands since. We’re actually lucky to still have a PO because, at the last change, nobody wanted to buy the business as a going concern … a bit of a loss for somebody. The scandal has cost many people and has done so in several different ways.

As above, it’s all hearsay but I still think that talking to folk inside the industry (straight from the horse’s mouth) has value.

[thirdcrank]

The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry

Here's the official description of the inquiry: About the Inquiry

The Inquiry was established in non-statutory form on 29th September 2020. It was converted to a statutory inquiry on 1st June 2021.

The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry (“the Inquiry”) is led by retired high court judge Sir Wyn Williams who has over 28 years’ judicial experience. Sir Wyn is tasked with ensuring there is a public summary of the failings which occurred with the Horizon IT system at the Post Office leading to the suspension, termination of subpostmasters’ contracts, prosecution and conviction of subpostmasters. The Inquiry will look to establish a clear account of the implementation and failings of the system over its lifetime (a period of over 20 years).

The Inquiry will gather relevant evidence from affected persons, previous and current subpostmasters and subpostmistresses, Post Office Ltd, UK Government Investment (UKGI), Fujitsu, the Department for Business and Trade (DBT), amongst others. It will also consider whether Post Office Limited has learned the lessons and embedded the cultural change necessary from the findings in Mr Justice Fraser’s judgments and the impact on affected postmasters.

https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.or ... ut-inquiry


The Chair - retired high court judge Sir Wyn Williams - initially set out a list of 218 "issues" to be considered, to which were added a further six

Completed List of Issues

This List of Issues has been completed following a process of consultation with core participants and other interested persons and in the light of written and oral representations which have been considered by the Chair. The issues identified in this list reflect the key themes on which the Inquiry intends to focus its investigative work.

For the avoidance of doubt, the Chair will be guided by the evidence that emerges throughout the Inquiry and this Completed List of Issues will not bind the Chair to investigate only those issues set out therein or necessarily to investigate a listed issue irrespective of the sufficiency of evidence that is identified.

https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.or ... ist-issues

[briansnail]

For the avoidance of doubt, the Chair will be guided by the evidence that emerges throughout the Inquiry and this Completed List of Issues will not bind the Chair to investigate only those issues set out therein or necessarily to investigate a listed issue irrespective of the sufficiency of evidence that is identified.

i wish the plain English campaign would visit the legal profession.
*************************************
I ride Brompton,Hetchins 531

[Bonefishblues]

For the avoidance of doubt, the Chair will be guided by the evidence that emerges throughout the Inquiry and this Completed List of Issues will not bind the Chair to investigate only those issues set out therein or necessarily to investigate a listed issue irrespective of the sufficiency of evidence that is identified.

i wish the plain English campaign would visit the legal profession.
*************************************
I ride Brompton,Hetchins 531

This is what we reckon we're going to look at but tbh we're going to play it by ear as we hear what people have to say.

[Jdsk]

Concerns also in Scotland about blanket exoneration:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... sh-victims

Conditions announced today:
Mr Hollinrake said the new legislation would overturn all convictions that met certain criteria. It will only cover:
• convictions from the Post Office and CPS
• "relevant offences", such as theft and false accounting
• sub-postmasters and their employees or family members
• cases where the offence took place during the time that the Horizon system (and its pilots) was in operation
• cases where the convicted person was working in a Post Office that was using the Horizon system software (including relevant pilot schemes)
• cases in England and Wales
However, the government said it would work with the Scottish Government and Northern Ireland Executive to ensure their schemes to quash convictions were "compatible with the UK compensation scheme".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68369015

More details of the exoneration and compensation:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... on-scandal

Post Office (Horizon System) Offences Bill"":
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/b ... 230181.pdf

"What is the Post Office Horizon bill and why is it controversial?":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... troversial

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

Conditions announced today:
Mr Hollinrake said the new legislation would overturn all convictions that met certain criteria. It will only cover:
• convictions from the Post Office and CPS
• "relevant offences", such as theft and false accounting
• sub-postmasters and their employees or family members
• cases where the offence took place during the time that the Horizon system (and its pilots) was in operation
• cases where the convicted person was working in a Post Office that was using the Horizon system software (including relevant pilot schemes)
• cases in England and Wales
However, the government said it would work with the Scottish Government and Northern Ireland Executive to ensure their schemes to quash convictions were "compatible with the UK compensation scheme".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68369015

More details of the exoneration and compensation:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... on-scandal

Post Office (Horizon System) Offences Bill"":
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/b ... 230181.pdf

"What is the Post Office Horizon bill and why is it controversial?":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... troversial

"Bill in the post: How the ‘unprecedented’ legislation is intended to work":
https://rozenberg.substack.com/p/bill-in-the-post

Jonathan

[thirdcrank]

I suspect the script for the next TV dramatization is in preparation as we "speak"

[Cowsham]

This barrister Warwick Tatford should definitely go to jail for what he did.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68606121.amp

"Mr Jenkins said that he could not "10% [sic] rule out" problems with Horizon screens as a possible cause for some shortfalls. During the ongoing public inquiry into the Post Office scandal, it was agreed that Mr Jenkins meant to say "100%".

Mr Tatford wrote in response: "Please rephrase. This will be taken as a damaging concession."

Warwick Tatford do you know what have you done sir?

[Jdsk]

More details of the exoneration and compensation:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... on-scandal

Post Office (Horizon System) Offences Bill"":
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/b ... 230181.pdf

"What is the Post Office Horizon bill and why is it controversial?":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... troversial

"Bill in the post: How the ‘unprecedented’ legislation is intended to work":
https://rozenberg.substack.com/p/bill-in-the-post

New piece from Rozenberg:
"Is the PO bill fair? Or should parliament clear more postmasters than the courts?":
https://rozenberg.substack.com/p/is-the-po-bill-fair
(might be paywalled)

Jonathan