Jihadi Brides and their Children.

[pwa]

The legality of the thing is one consideration, but the morality of it is another. I hate what Begum did, and even though she was young at the time I don't spend time agonising over her fate. But somebody somewhere has to have her on their territory, and why should we demand that it be another nation? She has created a mess, but it is our mess, nobody else's. Out of consideration for the people of the place where she currently is, I think we should bring her back to the UK. Not her for sake, but for theirs.

[Psamathe]

NB date.

...
Let's not lose sight of the fact that she (Begum) was legally a child and that she was groomed.

And British.

And those are what still seem relevant to me. But judges who know more than me have ruled differently.

The recent timeline:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamima_B ... Government

Please could someone explain the legal decisions or point to an expert who has.

Thanks

Jonathan

I don't think it changes the moral considerations but I thought that she is also a Bangladesh citizen so revoking her British citizenship does not make her stateless (which would have been against the law). As I say, to me this is a techincal aspect that does not comment on the moral aspects of the decision.

Ian

[Bonefishblues]

She has never been a Bangladeshi citizen, but up until age 21 she had the option to apply (Bangladesh said it would have been rejected anyway) by virtue of her parents' birth. Now she cannot.

[Jdsk]

...

And British.

And those are what still seem relevant to me. But judges who know more than me have ruled differently.

The recent timeline:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamima_B ... Government

Please could someone explain the legal decisions or point to an expert who has.

I don't think it changes the moral considerations but I thought that she is also a Bangladesh citizen so revoking her British citizenship does not make her stateless (which would have been against the law). As I say, to me this is a techincal aspect that does not comment on the moral aspects of the decision.

The DAG article, IIUC, says that this part of the legal argument hasn't changed in the recent hearings but the Supreme Court might address it.

Jonathan

[briansnail]

Do we forgive and forget and welcome them back ?

Or do "Actions have Consequences."

I should preface my reply.Its good to be patriotic and love one's country.Whoever,wherever.With this we need to be curious and respectful of all nationalities,religions and people everywhere.

That said I feel .We need to forgive and forget.To err is human,forgive divine .However actions do have consequences and they should not be allowed back.Two supporting reasons .Firstly it sends out a wrong message.If one robbed a bank and was told you are a nice person and you know what ?.You do not have to go to prison.The banks would be bankrupt in a week.
Also I feel maybe 98% would be successfully rehabilitated in the community.All it takes is for one or two people to be seriously radicalized again.If they misbehaved on a big scale.
This would lead to increase in the ultra far right and destabilize the whole of the United Kingdom.Why take a chance?.
Thirdly look at USA.Russians make up one of the highest intakes.A fraction will be sleepers for Russian FSB. The Intelligence services do not have the manpower to keep tabs on everyone.
M15/M16 in England have the same problem.Budgets.No country would allow them back.Please name one if you disagree.
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I ride Brompton,Hetchins 531

[Jdsk]

Do we forgive and forget and welcome them back ?

Or do "Actions have Consequences."

I should preface my reply.Its good to be patriotic and love one's country.Whoever,wherever.With this we need to be curious and respectful of all nationalities,religions and people everywhere.

That said I feel .We need to forgive and forget.To err is human,forgive divine .However actions do have consequences and they should not be allowed back.Two supporting reasons .Firstly it sends out a wrong message.If one robbed a bank and was told you are a nice person and you know what ?.You do not have to go to prison.The banks would be bankrupt in a week.
Also I feel maybe 98% would be successfully rehabilitated in the community.All it takes is for one or two people to be seriously radicalized again.If they misbehaved on a big scale.
This would lead to increase in the ultra far right and destabilize the whole of the United Kingdom.Why take a chance?.
Thirdly look at USA.Russians make up one of the highest intakes.A fraction will be sleepers for Russian FSB. The Intelligence services do not have the manpower to keep tabs on everyone.
M15/M16 in England have the same problem.Budgets.No country would allow them back.Please name one if you disagree.
...

My emboldening.

Has anyone suggested that she should be told that is a nice person and that she should not be sent to prison?

That's the precise opposite of my view. She should be returned to the UK and prosecuted in the same way as other people who are suspected of having committed crimes. And that isn't happening while she is held in a refugee camp.

Jonathan

[reohn2]

The legality of the thing is one consideration, but the morality of it is another. I hate what Begum did, and even though she was young at the time I don't spend time agonising over her fate. But somebody somewhere has to have her on their territory, and why should we demand that it be another nation? She has created a mess, but it is our mess, nobody else's. Out of consideration for the people of the place where she currently is, I think we should bring her back to the UK. Not her for sake, but for theirs.

In a nutshell!

[briansnail]

That's the precise opposite of my view. She should be returned to the UK and prosecuted in the same way as other people who are suspected of having committed crimes. And that isn't happening while she is held in a refugee camp.

Granted.Please bear in mind she (probably) has young children.Who is going to look after them while she is in jail if convicted.Although given the shortfall in prison places she might get early release (couple of months?).If she gets a long stretch.It will be heartbreaking for the young kids to visit Mum in jail.Children care homes should be a last resort.You make a valid case but small practical problems.


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I ride Brompton,Hetchins 531

[briansnail]

ps Fake Law The Secret Barrister 2020 Page 235 Says it was lawful although it created two tiers of British citizens ie British and non British
parentage would have different rights under law.

[ANTONISH]

That's the precise opposite of my view. She should be returned to the UK and prosecuted in the same way as other people who are suspected of having committed crimes. And that isn't happening while she is held in a refugee camp.

Granted.Please bear in mind she (probably) has young children.Who is going to look after them while she is in jail if convicted.Although given the shortfall in prison places she might get early release (couple of months?).If she gets a long stretch.It will be heartbreaking for the young kids to visit Mum in jail.Children care homes should be a last resort.You make a valid case but small practical problems.


*******************************
I ride Brompton,Hetchins 531

I believe she had three children but all subsequently died. Maybe she has had more.

[Pebble]

she will be home under labour £,£££,£££ newspaper deal, then a book, then a film, a life of wealth and luxury awaits - what an example to set

[Bonefishblues]

she will be home under labour £,£££,£££ newspaper deal, then a book, then a film, a life of wealth and luxury awaits - what an example to set

Which Labour politician has said this?

[Pebble]

she will be home under labour £,£££,£££ newspaper deal, then a book, then a film, a life of wealth and luxury awaits - what an example to set

Which Labour politician has said this?

just a prediction, it won't happen straight away, Starmer is OK. But gave it a few years and the far left will take over, she'll be back.