** The Climate Change Thread **

[pwa]

Small quantities of pure iron can be imported.

Al

Will it be small quantities? I don't know. I imagine that upmarket bicycle tubes won't be made from British steel if we cease to make iron from scratch. Anyone out there know the facts about this?

[Jdsk]

Will it be small quantities? I don't know. I imagine that upmarket bicycle tubes won't be made from British steel if we cease to make iron from scratch. Anyone out there know the facts about this?

The story of Port Talbot Steelworks:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Talbot_Steelworks

And of Scunthorpe:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scunthorpe_Steelworks

Technological options and their implications:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steelmaki ... g_of_steel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steelmaki ... _emissions

But I don't have a good unpaywalled explanation of the industrial implications for the UK... yet.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

"Tata Steel’s blast furnace closures: Who saw it coming? And is UK steelmaking in “managed decline?”":
https://www.themanufacturer.com/article ... rt-talbot/

"Steel Scrap: A Strategic Raw Material for Net Zero Steel":
https://www.uksteel.org/scrap

Jonathan

[al_yrpal]

Most steel scrap is mild steel which can be made harder and tougher by adding carbon and other metals such as nickel and chromium. Travel down the M4 and you will regularly see huge lorries full of scrap heading for S Wales. They must already process some scrap or add it to the basic oxygen furnaces converting iron to steel.

Al

[Jdsk]

The volumes of and opportunities for scrap steel are in the cited report.

Jonathan

[Psamathe]

Most steel scrap is mild steel which can be made harder and tougher by adding carbon and other metals such as nickel and chromium. Travel down the M4 and you will regularly see huge lorries full of scrap heading for S Wales. They must already process some scrap or add it to the basic oxygen furnaces converting iron to steel.

Al

An interesting aspect; do the carbon reduction calculations include large lorries consuming hydrocarbons hauling scrap metal across the country? And the impact of increased traffic, increased road wear, etc. Is South Wales considered central (for building effectively a new plant)?

Ian

[al_yrpal]

Well, at the moment the majority of steel scrap is sent overseas no doubt with a land journey in the UK. So less of a journey melting it here...

Al

[pwa]

Well, at the moment the majority of steel scrap is sent overseas no doubt with a land journey in the UK. So less of a journey melting it here...

Al

Agreed. Though I also hope they bring the scrap in by rail, not road. I fear it may well mean more lorries on the roads around here, especially the M4. At the moment, with iron ore used, the raw materials arrive directly by sea. The products mostly leave by rail.

[Psamathe]

Another sign Sunak is a "Climate Denier"

Peer who praised rising temperatures appointed to climate crisis committeeDavid Frost, the influential Conservative peer who has been criticised for claiming that rising global temperatures could be beneficial to the UK, is being appointed to a key parliamentary committee on the climate crisis.

The appointment showed that “wacky, fringe views on climate” were no longer confined to the Tory party’s extremes, Labour said.

Frost, who was Boris Johnson’s Brexit negotiator, will be appointed at the end of the month to the House of Lords select committee on environment and climate change....

(More) Madness from those supposed to be acting in our best interests.

Ian

[roubaixtuesday]

Most steel scrap is mild steel which can be made harder and tougher by adding carbon and other metals such as nickel and chromium. Travel down the M4 and you will regularly see huge lorries full of scrap heading for S Wales. They must already process some scrap or add it to the basic oxygen furnaces converting iron to steel.

Al

An interesting aspect; do the carbon reduction calculations include large lorries consuming hydrocarbons hauling scrap metal across the country? And the impact of increased traffic, increased road wear, etc. Is South Wales considered central (for building effectively a new plant)?

Ian

The difference between blast furnace and electric arc furnace steel is given here as about 1.6 tonnes CO2 per tonne steel, so 1600kg per tonne.

https://www.sustainable-ships.org/stori ... rint-steel

Road transport is quoted here as 62 grams per tonne km

https://www.ecta.com/wp-content/uploads ... SSUE-1.pdf

So each tonne of scrap would have to be transported entirely by road (1600/0.062) =25,000 km to make up the difference. So most of the way round the world!

(And that's even before you take into account that it's already going somewhere by road)

Caveat: I may have got something terribly wrong in this , criticism welcome!

[Psamathe]

Worrying report

‘In a word, horrific’: Trump’s extreme anti-environment blueprint

Allies and advisers have hinted at a more methodical second term: driving forward fossil fuel production, sidelining scientists and overturning rules

A blueprint is emerging for a second Donald Trump term that is even more extreme for the environment than his first, according to interviews with multiple Trump allies and advisers.

In contrast to a sometimes chaotic first White House term, they outlined a far more methodical second presidency: driving forward fossil fuel production, sidelining mainstream climate scientists and overturning rules that curb planet-heating emissions.

Is he [Trump] really so stupid that he disbelieves att the Climate Science (that the rest of the world accept)? Can he really not see the damage already done and how he'll be making it worse?

But then hydrocarbon extraction tends to need significant investment and retrurns are longer term. Will reputable companies have the confidence that in 4 years it wont all revert back to a more sane regulatory framework? Will they actually risk investing? Or will it just be the disreputable companies taking quick profits at the coist of pollutioin and damage?

Ian

[roubaixtuesday]

Worrying report

‘In a word, horrific’: Trump’s extreme anti-environment blueprint

Allies and advisers have hinted at a more methodical second term: driving forward fossil fuel production, sidelining scientists and overturning rules

A blueprint is emerging for a second Donald Trump term that is even more extreme for the environment than his first, according to interviews with multiple Trump allies and advisers.

In contrast to a sometimes chaotic first White House term, they outlined a far more methodical second presidency: driving forward fossil fuel production, sidelining mainstream climate scientists and overturning rules that curb planet-heating emissions.

Is he [Trump] really so stupid that he disbelieves att the Climate Science (that the rest of the world accept)? Can he really not see the damage already done and how he'll be making it worse?

But then hydrocarbon extraction tends to need significant investment and retrurns are longer term. Will reputable companies have the confidence that in 4 years it wont all revert back to a more sane regulatory framework? Will they actually risk investing? Or will it just be the disreputable companies taking quick profits at the coist of pollutioin and damage?

Ian

Trump is not at all stupid IMO; he simply doesn't care about anything other than his own power and ego (and the money to allow that).

That's it. There isn't anything else.

[mattheus]

Meanwhile (mainly in the US):

The U.S. Energy Information Agency took a look at the impact of crypto’s energy needs and estimates it may already account for up to 2.3% of U.S. energy consumption.
(my bold)

Our insatiable appetite for web-based services and streaming platforms has required the construction of ever more powerful data centers, all of which need more and more electricity to operate. Managing that growing demand adds to the challenge of slashing carbon emissions from the grid. Some estimates see energy needs for data centers tripling by 2030, accounting for 7.5% of U.S. energy consumption. The surge in controversial cryptocurrency mining is part of that, as is the fast-emerging AI industry.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsma ... ergy-hogs/

[reohn2]

Trump is not at all stupid IMO; he simply doesn't care about anything other than his own power and ego (and the money to allow that).

That's it. There isn't anything else.

Nail,head,on!
And to a slightly lesser extent the same thing for the past 14 years of UK government!

[Psamathe]

Sunak's true Climate change view now beginning to emerge

Sunak stands with net zero and climate conspiracy group at farming protest
Rishi Sunak attended a protest alongside a group which has posted conspiracy theories about climate change, and which campaigns against net zero, the Observer can reveal.

The prime minister has been accused of “pandering to extremists” by farmers and wildlife groups, who have asked him to “listen to reason and logic” rather than conspiracy theories.
...

Ian