Advice on Helmets, again (was price vs quality)

[ymfb]

I wasn’t there to witness it, but one cycle rode into the back of the other, my friend was knocked off her bicycle and hit her head on something that cracked the shell of her helmet. I think a paramedic probably has more experience and knowledge of accidents and better qualified to assess the likely outcome of an accident with or without the helmet. The number of persons or cause is irrelevant to the use of the word accident. Someone was hurt, it wasn’t deliberate so which verb would you prefer ?

Collision- whilst it wasn't a deliberate act the standard of cycle craft shown by the person who ran into your friend fell below an acceptable standard, either through lack of attention or care. As one would expect when driving or motorcycling - a safe braking space should be kept between each cycle...

Absolutely correct.

According to Wikipedia “An accident is an unintended, normally unwanted event that was not directly caused by humans. The term accident implies that nobody should be blamed, but the event may have been caused by unrecognized or unaddressed risks.”

Accidents are avoidable, but happen so preparedness is your next line of defence. If there was no risk to falling off and injury there would be no need for helmets and gloves. In motorcycle parlance, Dress for the slide, not the ride.

Wearing good quality Personal protective equipment, "PPE", purpose is to minimise exposure to hazards that cause serious injury and in my opinion the sensible, rationale approach.

Cycle paths, in our area at least still have many hazards without the additional risk of other cyclists.

[roubaixtuesday]

As someone who wears a helmet for skiing, compulsory when motorcycling, hard hat at work not wearing a helmet for cycling would be odd. It’s a requirement at Sportives, which I agree with. For anyone who is involved in h & s and writing risk assessments wearing helmets would be on the PPE list, as would gloves and glasses.

A friend involved in a cycle v cycle accident on a cycle path was in the words of the attending paramedics was saved by wearing a good quality cycle helmet.

Just like when motorcycle helmets became compulsory in 1973 and seat belts in 1983 there were dissenters but the younger generations will consider it the sensible and the older people will either give in, give up or get caught. Not wearing helmets may become socially unacceptable like smoking and drink driving. Arguing about how statistics and scientific reports might be considered will become an irrelevance.

You've proved that it's possible for paramedics to say daft things.

Well done.

[Mike Sales]

A friend involved in a cycle v cycle accident on a cycle path was in the words of the attending paramedics was saved by wearing a good quality cycle helmet.

I see your anonymous paramedic and raise you a neurosurgeon.

But all those cyclists donning a helmet as a safety precaution when they take to the saddle may be wasting their time, a leading neurosurgeon has said.

Henry Marsh, who works at St George’s Hospital in Tooting, London, said he has treated a number of patients involved in bike accidents whose helmets were “too flimsy” to provide any real protection, The Telegraph reported.

Speaking at the Hay Festival alongside Ian McEwan, whose novel Saturday pivots on the life of a neurosurgeon, Dr Marsh went on to say that wearing a helmet could actually pose greater risks to cyclists than not wearing one at all.

He drew on research from the University of Bath which suggests that drivers get around three inches closer to cyclists wearing helmets because they view them as safer.

Dr Marsh said: “I ride a bike and I never wear a helmet. In the countries where bike helmets are compulsory there has been no reduction in bike injuries whatsoever.

“I see lots of people in bike accidents and these flimsy little helmets don’t help.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 65257.html

Edited to add a recommendation for his books.
Do No Harm: Stories of Life, Death and Brain Surgery
Admissions: Life as a Brain Surgeon
And Finally: Matters of Life and Death

[pjclinch]

Eh?... How the hell can you be in a collision with another cyclist on a cycle path?

Much the same way people manage to collide with stationary objects. By not paying enough attention!

[pjclinch]

I wasn’t there to witness it, but one cycle rode into the back of the other, my friend was knocked off her bicycle and hit her head on something that cracked the shell of her helmet. I think a paramedic probably has more experience and knowledge of accidents and better qualified to assess the likely outcome of an accident with or without the helmet.

I cracked the shell of a helmet by holding it in my hands and pushing firmly with my thumbs at the back. I don't think I could kill you, or even hurt you much, by pushing firmly on your skull with my bare hands, but I could quite easily crack a helmet shell (I couldn't do that in any place, just at the back, but it does demonstrate that an expanded polystyrene hat is not the amazing death-stopper that so many assume).

Cracked bicycle helmet, broken by pushing firmly with bare hands

Your paramedic is probably just rolling out what they hear all the time, but repetition isn't evidence. They'll see far more head injuries day to day in car crashes and falls down stairs than bike prangs if their beat is statistically representative, but they'll not bang about wearing helmets in cars and on stairs, not because it's not worth doing but because culture says we don't do that.

If you want to know what is an effective health intervention across a population you're best off asking an epidemiologist, because that's their speciality (as opposed to first-line patching up folk after the fact, which is where a paramedic excels). And epidemiologists seem to go for something along the lines of "I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that",

Pete.

[ymfb]

Sadly the neurosurgeon is of no use at the scene of the accident. The paramedic or increasingly a trauma doctor see the method and extent of injury at the scene know what is life saving or preserving. It is they who deliver life saving treatment and package up the patient ready for the major trauma teams back at the hospital after which the surgeon will become involved.

Statistics can be made to show anything, however they do not definitively prove or disprove a certain hypothesis. Rather, they give a probability that a certain result could be obtained by chance if there were really no difference between conditions.

Good quality helmets can reduce or prevent serious injury. I’m happy for them to be compulsory when riding on the road.

[Mike Sales]

Sadly the neurosurgeon is of no use at the scene of the accident. The paramedic or increasingly a trauma doctor see the method and extent of injury at the scene know what is life saving or preserving. It is they who deliver life saving treatment and package up the patient ready for the major trauma teams back at the hospital after which the surgeon will become involved.

Statistics can be made to show anything, however they do not definitively prove or disprove a certain hypothesis. Rather, they give a probability that a certain result could be obtained by chance if there were really no difference between conditions.

Good quality helmets can reduce or prevent serious injury. I’m happy for them to be compulsory when riding on the road.

If I am unlucky enough to collect a head injury I would rather have a neurosurgeon on scene than a paramedic.
What makes you so sure that helmets work? It seems to be faith, which is not generally considered as useful as science.

[cycle tramp]

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[cycle tramp]

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