Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?

[al_yrpal]

Perhaps the rise of anti EU feeling is the result of Euro political red tape and a feeling of individual powerlessness? If it went back to just being simply a Common Market and ceased being an obviously incompetent unaccountable lumbering political nonentity perhaps more people would support it?

Al

[Jdsk]

Perhaps the rise of anti EU feeling is the result of Euro political red tape and a feeling of individual powerlessness? If it went back to just being simply a Common Market and ceased being an obviously incompetent unaccountable lumbering political nonentity perhaps more people would support it?

What's the evidence for a "rise of anti EU feeling" amongst the populations of the Member States?

Thanks

Jonathan

PS: One of the many strengths of the Pew Research surveys is that they have run the same questions over several years. This makes them the best available information on trends.

[Jdsk]

And the latest YouGov results on membership of the EU, by country:

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/d ... an24_W.pdf

Jonathan

[Carlton green]

Politicians and academics will twist data for their own ends ….

Experts? pfft. Who needs 'em. The bloke down the pub understands stats much better.

But seriously, and interestingly, most of the difference in educational attainment is mooted to explained by the cultural, political and economic influences associated with educational attainment, not the actual qualifications (ie if you read the Express and are in an insecure job, whether you've got a PhD or not made relatively little difference to your Brexit voting likelihood)

Educational attainment does also appear to have a direct effect on EU referendum voting. Gaining additional educational qualifications remains associated with voting to remain even after accounting for all three indirect educational influences – cultural attitudes, economic orientations and political cue-taking.

However, this direct educational effect is relatively small – accounting for only around one fifth of the overall ‘educational gap’ in Leave/Remain voting. Clearly then, indirect educational influences constitute the most important part of the story in explaining why the referendum vote divided so starkly along educational lines.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/educational-attai ... um-voting/

Experts, experts at what ??? Indeed who does need them, or rather who does need those whose focus isn’t on the whole truth but instead on their personal beliefs and ambitions? Indeed identifying those who are focussed on the truth and set aside their own beliefs and ambitions is arguably remarkably hard to do.

Whatever, you’ve tried to give a useful response and I’m grateful for that, thank you. I’ll try to look at the link later and hope to find the content to be factual, unbiased and easy enough to understand.

Of course the EU needed to work for virtually the whole of society, or at least be seem to be better than the alternatives, so that would include folk with low / lower educational achievement too. My own straw poll indicates that it was the political and social influences that swung the vote. Of course - well in my opinion at least - the whole referendum mechanism was deeply flawed and the result was of insufficient substance to be acted on; so that that view doesn’t appear as ‘sour grapes’ I add that I voted to leave.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... /cbp-7639/

[Vorpal]

Perhaps the rise of anti EU feeling is the result of Euro political red tape and a feeling of individual powerlessness? If it went back to just being simply a Common Market and ceased being an obviously incompetent unaccountable lumbering political nonentity perhaps more people would support it?

Al

The politicisation of EU policies, polarisation within member states, and the rise of populism give Eurosceptic parties an advantage. I think that folks see there should be some reform, and increased democratic accountability. that doesn't mean they are anti-EU. It just means that they want to elect people who will push for reform.

[Jdsk]

...
Whatever, you’ve tried to give a useful response and I’m grateful for that, thank you. I’ll try to look at the link later and hope to find the content to be factual, unbiased and easy enough to understand.
...

"Educational attainment and referendum voting: questions and connections":
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/educational-attai ... um-voting/

The underlying study is:
"Explaining the educational divide in electoral behaviour: testing direct and indirect effects from British elections and referendums 2016–2019"
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10 ... ccess=true
and that cites the findings that need to be explained.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

Perhaps the rise of anti EU feeling is the result of Euro political red tape and a feeling of individual powerlessness? If it went back to just being simply a Common Market and ceased being an obviously incompetent unaccountable lumbering political nonentity perhaps more people would support it?

The politicisation of EU policies, polarisation within member states, and the rise of populism give Eurosceptic parties an advantage. I think that folks see there should be some reform, and increased democratic accountability. that doesn't mean they are anti-EU. It just means that they want to elect people who will push for reform.

And this is why it's important to ask people directly what they think about membership of the EU, as well as analysing how they vote in elections.

The YouGov findings upthread also include what people think about their own governments...

Jonathan

[Carlton green]

Perhaps the rise of anti EU feeling is the result of Euro political red tape and a feeling of individual powerlessness? If it went back to just being simply a Common Market and ceased being an obviously incompetent unaccountable lumbering political nonentity perhaps more people would support it?

The politicisation of EU policies, polarisation within member states, and the rise of populism give Eurosceptic parties an advantage. I think that folks see there should be some reform, and increased democratic accountability. that doesn't mean they are anti-EU. It just means that they want to elect people who will push for reform.

And this is why it's important to ask people directly what they think about membership of the EU, as well as analysing how they vote in elections.

The YouGov findings upthread also include what people think about their own governments...

Jonathan

I don’t think that asking people directly what they think goes far enough. To my mind at least people are lied to and mislead by others, that happens for the satisfaction of (the liar’s / liars’) personal and political aspirations. As I said above identifying those who are focussed on the truth and set aside their own beliefs and ambitions is arguably remarkably hard to do.

[al_yrpal]

Remainders can believe this (because its in the Guardian!)....

‘Anti-European’ populists on track for big gains in EU elections, says report https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... ays-report

Al

[francovendee]

What will keep the EU together is looking across the Channel to see how leaving has worked out for the only leaver.
Not much of an encouragement is it.

[pwa]

What will keep the EU together is looking across the Channel to see how leaving has worked out for the only leaver.
Not much of an encouragement is it.

It isn't all that great within the EU at the moment, though, is it? Politically it looks very iffy in Hungary, Austria and Italy, and even the EU heartland of the Low Countries and France / Germany doesn't strike me as being as politically stable as it was twenty years ago. We live in uncertain times, whichever side of the Channel you are on. Okay, if you think a country's success is measured by GDP, the UK is certainly in the "could do better" bracket, but I don't measure success that way, or not on its own at least. I see a lot to be worried about within the EU. Don't you?

The way forward doesn't lie in endless wallowing in the Leave/Remain debate. It lies in new and creative approaches to cooperation between the Western democracies. Time to move on.

[the snail]

I see a lot to be worried about within the EU. Don't you?

The way forward doesn't lie in endless wallowing in the Leave/Remain debate. It lies in new and creative approaches to cooperation between the Western democracies. Time to move on.

I'm not sure what you expect. The member states are democracies, and people parties go in and out of favour, economies go through difficult times. The question for member states is whether or not EU membership is benficial, and generally the answer is 'yes', and nobody is going to look at the UK and think leaving is a good idea.
People have moved on, we've done the 'leave' thing, time to move on and rejoin.

[Carlton green]

The way forward doesn't lie in endless wallowing in the Leave/Remain debate. It lies in new and creative approaches to cooperation between the Western democracies. Time to move on.

Quite, though so many here don’t get that concept and have to endlessly drag up this topic. What’s done is done and there’s no point in crying over spilt milk, etc. Let’s hope for a change of Government (to Labour) and then an improved relationship with the EU.

I see a lot to be worried about within the EU. Don't you?

The way forward doesn't lie in endless wallowing in the Leave/Remain debate. It lies in new and creative approaches to cooperation between the Western democracies. Time to move on.

I'm not sure what you expect. The member states are democracies, and people parties go in and out of favour, economies go through difficult times. The question for member states is whether or not EU membership is benficial, and generally the answer is 'yes', and nobody is going to look at the UK and think leaving is a good idea.
People have moved on, we've done the 'leave' thing, time to move on and rejoin.

The formatting or something on the above post seems out to me, easily done but still potentially misleading. Comments are misattributed.

[al_yrpal]

If the EU went back to being simply a Common Market there would be a lot more support for it here in the UK. As it is its a faceless burocracy run by unelected and unaccountable appointees. It became something no one here voted for.

Al

[pwa]

The future is a place none of us can really see, but from where we are right now I would say that the UK is not re-joining the EU in the foreseeable. The EU wouldn't want the potential turmoil, and Parliament is very unlikely to want to re-ignite that debate when we have so many nuts-and-bolts issues to be getting on with. Maybe ten years from now the political climate will be sufficiently different for the nation to reconsider, but I doubt it. I suspect most people out there will be very content never to hear about it again.