Closure of ticket offices

[atoz]

The ticket machine is obviously the property of the company running the station at which it is located. A ticket issued from it has identical validity to a ticket issued by from an online provider or at the booking office for the identical journey. What can differ is that many machines are set up in a way which makes it difficult to find certain options.

"A ticket issued from it has identical validity to a ticket issued by from an online provider or at the booking office for the identical journey."

Transpennine don't accept that. And I did use the machine carefully to avoid this scenario.

That should be taken to the regulators. It's little different from a fuel station refusing legitimate payment methods without warning, exposing you to various penalties.

I have informed our local combined transport authority. I am also inclined to let our local young Labour MP know. It's good material if you want to campaign for much better public accountability of transport operators. And of course an general election is looming next year. But I'm not holding my breath.

[atoz]

To add to my last post. I have fathomed the reason for the ticket scam. It's called in the rail industry a "negative easement". I had to dig into the Easements file pdf that is part of the Routing Guide - you can find it online without too much effort, it's a part of this site https://data.atoc.org/routeing-guide

Basically what would be an acceptable alternate route to the direct service is now classed as a "circuitous route" and therefore not a valid route. Whereas a similar alternate route elsewhere just down the line is allowed and classed as a"positive easement". This scam has gone on for some years, judging from the rail forum websites' posts. Guess what makes one different to the other- yes, one route is mainly run by Transpennine Express. Quel surprise- not.

You couldn't make it up. And you would never know the reason for it all without looking at the guide. Nothing printed on the ticket about restrictions etc. Just "any permitted route".

If you voted for/supported privatisation this is the result.

[simonhill]

Not sure if this is news for those in the know.

FT online 15/12/23

"Trainline shares jumped by more than a fifth on Friday after the UK government cancelled plans to launch a rival digital ticketing service.

Investors had feared that long-running government efforts to modernise the railway’s complex ticketing system could erode Trainline’s market dominance."
-----------
"Trainline said it “noted” the government’s decision. The Department for Transport did not comment beyond confirming the decision to scrap the ticketing plans."

https://www.ft.com/content/91e32d23-8f0 ... 982c7c3822

[Jdsk]

Not sure if this is news for those in the know.

FT online 15/12/23

"Trainline shares jumped by more than a fifth on Friday after the UK government cancelled plans to launch a rival digital ticketing service.

Investors had feared that long-running government efforts to modernise the railway’s complex ticketing system could erode Trainline’s market dominance."
-----------
"Trainline said it “noted” the government’s decision. The Department for Transport did not comment beyond confirming the decision to scrap the ticketing plans."

https://www.ft.com/content/91e32d23-8f0 ... 982c7c3822

First that I'd heard. Thanks.

I can't find an official announcement but this is about the long-announced plan for Great British Railways to take on responsibility for ticketing.

Total chaos.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

Not sure if this is news for those in the know.

FT online 15/12/23

"Trainline shares jumped by more than a fifth on Friday after the UK government cancelled plans to launch a rival digital ticketing service.

Investors had feared that long-running government efforts to modernise the railway’s complex ticketing system could erode Trainline’s market dominance."
-----------
"Trainline said it “noted” the government’s decision. The Department for Transport did not comment beyond confirming the decision to scrap the ticketing plans."

https://www.ft.com/content/91e32d23-8f0 ... 982c7c3822

First that I'd heard. Thanks.

I can't find an official announcement but this is about the long-announced plan for Great British Railways to take on responsibility for ticketing.

Total chaos.

"Update on centralised Great British Railways online rail ticket retailer: December 2023
"As set out in the white paper, we are committed to improving passenger experience on the railways.
"The private sector plays an important role in driving innovation and attracting more customers to the railway. As stated in the Bradshaw Address, we are focused on opening up railway data and systems, lowering barriers to entry for independent rail ticket retailers to improve passenger experience. We are confirming that we are not pursuing plans to deliver a centralised Great British Railways online rail ticket retailer.
"Train operators will continue to retail to passengers online alongside existing third-party retailers while we develop measures to spur further competition in the online rail ticket retail market to make things better for passengers."
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... n-for-rail

Jonathan

[MikeF]

"improve passenger experience" - another phrase for bullshit bingo . Essentially the Government is doing anything except what's needed for passengers - oh I forgot - "customers".
The best place to buy a train ticket is the local ticket office....... but the Government wants to dispense with them.

[Bmblbzzz]

My most recent train journey didn't pass a ticket office. Not where I got on, not where I got off, nor the two stations passed en route. And it's been that way since 1967. It's really not a problem; you can buy tickets from on-board staff and for the last couple of years there's also been the option of using a ticket machine. A ticket office isn't always the best place to buy tickets. More importantly, the service has become more frequent, more reliable and more comfortable.

[SwiftyDoesIt]

Well for me, I've pretty much jacked in using mainline rail as a transport method to visit the folks and gone to borrowing a car, it's too costly for one - £20 cheaper by car for a 360 mile round trip using a small petrol hatch (that I can fit the bike in), the biggest off put is the amount of hassle.

Not just the booking of bike but getting bike on board, getting the designated spot which with the locker system I've found approx 1 out of 3 times is full of luggage/prams as staff have left them open, so ends up with me getting hassle and having to stand with m bike upright near the opposite door (to getting off) because my bike blocks the passage otherwise. Add into which having to take panniers off, hanging the bike by a wheel from a position that is tight already.
I just can't be fragged with it, in fact I'd rather pay more to put the bike in a car now.
The £20 cheaper was compared to booking well in advance and riding 6 miles to a local station upwind than 6 miles to node station further downwind as it were.

As for local journey's, the biggest bind is not being able to pay cash, I won't pay by card, I have no funds in a debit card account in any case. Phone is non surveillance/non interweb connecting type as well.

The pushing to digital and so called 'SMART' payments, is by far the bigger broader problem, forcing people to use cards/phones/watches etc to make a payment.
My local station (town of 20,000, soon to be near 30,000 when they build on the greenbelt and farmland in the next couple of years! ) has just re-opened the office on a Saturday morning but had been shut for quite a while, I presume week mornings it's open for a couple of hours also but for my trips, it's just the machine. Which often either doesn't take cash or the touch screen isn't functioning properly past the station selection or ticket type, same on a couple of other small station machines on the route.

A single ticket price for a local rural trip of 10 miles is £7.10 during the week (I return day or 2 after so it's £14.20 for two singles), £5.30 @weekends, the former is SIX times the cost of the fuel for the same distance! You can cycle the 10 miles if you fancy risking it on the 70mph undulating/twisting dual carriageway for 7.5 of the trip, but there's multiple exits/entrances with not great sight lines for around half a dozen from the villages along the route. Or the option of going the hilly circuitous back road routes that add 40% distance/4x the climbing (including a 14% gradient) or the slightly flatter route (onl 3x times the gin over the direct route ) which is 50% longer
I only get the train part-ways to my end destination, so there's another 17 miles on the end of the train Journey (total of 21 or 22 if not taking the train).
I could spend an additional £4.30 each way and save 7/14 miles and 20-25 mins but that just winds me up even more.

I can totally understand why folk with cars have little incentive to use trains either in rural areas or longer trips across the country, more so when there's two persons or more in the vehicle. RThrowing in the closing of ticket offices just makes that even more of a discentive.

[mjr]

That seems a particularly bad example, but such is the fragmented nature of our national transport network that some suffer it and they're far from the only ones. I'm guessing it's somewhere on the GWR express network (dratted bike cupboards) near a National Highways route dualled 1980-2010 (so not even an attempt at a cycle route), maybe the A303 or A419.

[Bmblbzzz]

The dualled section of the A419/417 is arrow straight (being a Roman road) and pretty flat, so it's not that. It's even reasonably well provided with bridges, at least south of Cirencester, though frustratingly lacking in parallel alternatives.

[simonhill]

Review by WHICH

"Ticket machines at train stations charge passengers more than double than what they'd cost online for some journeys, according to new analysis.

Consumer group Which?'s research said some same-day rail tickets were 50% more expensive on average at stations.

The best value fares were either unavailable or hidden among several options on many machines."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68009768

[gbnz]

"Ticket machines at train stations charge passengers more than double than what they'd cost online

Think that's been apparent for quite some years. Wonder how many passengers are lost to the railways, due their inept ticket machines?

I'm reliant on buses & trains. My last encounter with a railway ticket machine was on Sunday, after 20 minutes trying to get the *&%%^& thing to work, obviously no ticket office being available for a mainline station, it being mid-day Sunday, couldn't risk travelling by train

Walked up to the bus stop and felt it necessary to do my 60 mile journey by bus. Caught the bus yesterday, couldn't be bothered trying to buy a ticket for a train. Aside from which it's a joke that a journey by train may cost £6 one day and £45 the next. Buses are slow, dirty, noisy, but at least they can be relied upon to a greater extent, than some toy mainline train and are FOC

Pity as I used to like trains, having even worked on the railways occasionally.

[Jdsk]

Review by WHICH

"Ticket machines at train stations charge passengers more than double than what they'd cost online for some journeys, according to new analysis.

Consumer group Which?'s research said some same-day rail tickets were 50% more expensive on average at stations.

The best value fares were either unavailable or hidden among several options on many machines."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68009768

Thanks for that.

"Train station machines can charge more than twice the price of online tickets":
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/tr ... fbN6V5xda8
(which I think is unpaywalled).

Jonathan

[mjr]

Yes, ticket machines have horrible interfaces. They're focused on selling the most common tickets, not the cheapest.

But I think I remember ticket office reviews finding that many those sell wrong or expensive tickets too.

It's surprising that no ticket machines have done deals with ticket selling websites or apps to adapt their interfaces, which are generally better, but currently hobbled by the need to print tickets touching London or Liverpool onto magnetic striped card.

And now the directly-operated LNER is following up its controversial changes to single and return tickets with plans to sell unregulated-price fixed-train "Advance" tickets right up to departure but stop selling normal Off-Peak tickets.

[Jdsk]

Where does the "new National Rail Journey Planner" fit into this?
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk

Thanks

Jonathan