Closure of ticket offices

[Psamathe]

Also, online booking is "challenging" e.g. thetrainline.com in my experience SPAM you for ages after you've purchased a ticket from them.
Ian

Maybe there's a button I ticked at some point that I can't remember, I buy several tickets a month via Trainline and the only emails I receive are directly related to them.

If you buy regularly that might be why you don't get SPAMed from them. Most of the SPAM I got seemed to relate to encouraging me to go on train again ("Time to plan your next trip", You haven't seem recent improvements/reductions/etc.). They tend not to start until at least several weeks after buying a ticket - from memory approx. I'f buy ticket home to ferry port with bike and I'd start getting SPAMed towards end of a 2 month tour.

There is a trick to avoid it - get somebody else to book your ticket! As my domain has been blocked (only way they could stop the SPAM), this summer I had to get somebody else to book my ticket and now they are getting SPAMed.

(I always check the "No Marketing ..." or uncheck the "Send me Marketing ...")

Ian

[wjhall]

My local station has neither a ticket office or a ticket machine. It’s basically just 2 platforms. I either have to buy a ticket on the train or buy one in advance of travelling. The nearest ticket office is 10 miles in either direction.

In my case five miles, which is the same for all practical purposes, and no ticket machines at the local station (SML) either, which is why I either buy on the train, buy in advance for long journeys where reservations may be useful, or use a PAYG card for local journeys. Increasingly often I see other people using phones, as my daughter does. Staff on the local train can sell almost all tickets, including splits, and are generally very competent, about ten years ago one of them revealed the four way SML to SHF split to me and subsequently all staff have been quite happy selling it, once even operating the doors at CDN in the middle of the process.

Ticket offices have been disappearing since the 1960s and are irrelevant to most travellers. I have avoided the campaign to preserve them, regarding it as irrelevant nostalgia, likely to create extra costs and something in which I have no legitimate interest. What would be relevant was a campaign to ensure that the other ticket sale methods work well, addressing poor ticket machine design, the faults in the PAYG card system and retaining on board commercial staff. What could be better than at seat ticket sales, so much better than allowing extra time to queue in the wind and rain at ticket offices or ticket machines?

For disabled people buying from staff on the train is presumably the best option, although they may need advance contact to arrange assistance.

[mjr]

What would be relevant was a campaign to ensure that the other ticket sale methods work well, addressing poor ticket machine design, the faults in the PAYG card system and retaining on board commercial staff. What could be better than at seat ticket sales, so much better than allowing extra time to queue in the wind and rain at ticket offices or ticket machines?

This would need a change in the rules. It is currently an offence to board a train without a ticket and attempt to buy on board if your departure station had a fully working ticket machine.

[Bmblbzzz]

In my case five miles, which is the same for all practical purposes, and no ticket machines at the local station (SML) either, which is why I either buy on the train, buy in advance for long journeys where reservations may be useful, or use a PAYG card for local journeys. Increasingly often I see other people using phones, as my daughter does. Staff on the local train can sell almost all tickets, including splits, and are generally very competent, about ten years ago one of them revealed the four way SML to SHF split to me and subsequently all staff have been quite happy selling it, once even operating the doors at CDN in the middle of the process.

Beach line staff are knowledgeable, competent and friendly. But surely any train departing SML towards BRI is going to stop at CDN in any case?

For disabled people buying from staff on the train is presumably the best option, although they may need advance contact to arrange assistance.

This will depend on the nature of the disability. For instance, deaf people might not like to buy in a speech operation against the noisy background of a moving train.

[RickH]

My local station has neither a ticket office or a ticket machine. It’s basically just 2 platforms. I either have to buy a ticket on the train or buy one in advance of travelling. The nearest ticket office is 10 miles in either direction.

For disabled people buying from staff on the train is presumably the best option, although they may need advance contact to arrange assistance.

With increasing numbers of stations having barriers that don't let you onto the platform without a ticket it could prove problematic to even get on the train.

Many (most?) ticket machines are inaccessible to at least a proportion of disabled people - too high to operate from a wheelchair, touch screens & no audible cues for those with sight impairment, etc.

Even with tickets bought online, if you need a physical ticket you are a bit stuffed if the ticket machine doesn't work & there is no ticket office. Last week I needed to collect physical tickets as I was catching an Avanti train up to Glasgow & back with my bike (a good value trip, advance tickets for less than £25 return - booked less than a week before travel & door to door with my bike). You need a bike reservation ticket to attach to your bike so there isn't an e-ticket option. When I went to collect them the machine (& there appears to only be 1 machine at Wigan North Western) had a notice on saying "out of order, please use another machine". Fortunately the ticket office was open & I could get the tickets over the counter (plus I had gone to get them the day before travel just in case there were problems).

One useful thing I did clarify was that you can collect tickets from any station not just your departure one. I thought that might be the case but it was simpler in this instance to just ride the slightly longer trip to Wigan rather than the slightly shorter distance to my nearest station.

[wjhall]

.... What would be relevant was a campaign to ensure that the other ticket sale methods work well, addressing poor ticket machine design, the faults in the PAYG card system and retaining on board commercial staff. ....

For disabled people buying from staff on the train is presumably the best option, although they may need advance contact to arrange assistance.

The posts suggesting that the current problems in the system, including gatelines, poor ticket machine design and the law requiring ticket purchase before boarding 'if purchase facilities are available,' are a reason for retaining ticket offices have ignored my point that it would have been more useful to campaign for fixing all the other methods, including changing the rules to make on board ticket purchase the norm. The ticket office at BRI does not solve any of these problems for people boarding at SML, or the majority of unmanned stations. We are fortunate at SML that there is no ticket machine and on board sales are both legal, and still much used, although remote advance purchasing is obviously what many people already do. It is presumably possible that the railways could move to requiring advance purchase for stations where there are no purchase facilities, and that is the sort of thing that could slip through whilst everyone is congratulating themselves on saving the imaginary ticket office. Remember, railways are now a public service, so you get what the treasury wants to give you, with customer service no longer a consideration.

Indulging in a nostalgia campaign does nothing to solve the problems in the other methods, including ticket machines generally being badly designed even for able users, although I think I have seen some that look as if the physical layout may be designed for wheelchair users, WSM perhaps.

For disabled people we need some disabled people to comment. I would be quite surprised if talking through a window in the noisy environment of Temple Meads booking hall, with an impatient queue behind, is really better for deaf people than sitting on a train with the undivided attention of the on-board ticket seller.

[ANTONISH]

Before privatisation it was possible to buy train tickets in advance from a travel agent.
With the complexities of the privatised system travel agents found it too difficult to provide this service.

It shouldn't be impossible to have a central location in most towns which enable the purchase of online tickets for trains, planes and buses.
Also to deal with passport applications and other requirements that we all have to deal with but for which a sizeable minority of us don't have the capacity.

[Bmblbzzz]

For disabled people we need some disabled people to comment. I would be quite surprised if talking through a window in the noisy environment of Temple Meads booking hall, with an impatient queue behind, is really better for deaf people than sitting on a train with the undivided attention of the on-board ticket seller.

It's probably going to depend on how busy the booking hall is, acoustics, lighting and so on. My deaf friend finds both tricky, so prefers to buy online. A blind person with good hearing is presumably going to prefer dealing with a person rather than a screen. Many other permutations...

[atoz]

There is a related issue that people should be aware of. Ticket machines are often tied into a specific rail company. What that means is if a journey's route is not just one company, the other company may choose not to accept your ticket even if the ticket has no printed restrictions on it, and even though the ticket says on it "valid by any permitted route". There is a move in the industry to take that phrase off tickets. It is of course a scam designed to relieve you of more of your money, on our dysfunctional privatised rail network. Trying to find what the "permitted route" in any case is a Kafkaesque nightmare. Judging from the attitude of "revenue protection officers" I have experienced, it's whatever the company says it is, especially when it comes to Transpennine.

So don't be thinking these companies give a **** about customer service. They don't.

In BR days the phrase on the ticket was "valid by any reasonable route". Useful if there was an issue on your normal route eg cancellation or significant delay. Those days are gone. But of course it was a public service then not a private monopoly scam.

I know people will say the companies will honour your ticket in the event of an issue. Don't depend on this.

And people wonder why most of us prefer to drive ..

[Bmblbzzz]

The ticket machine is obviously the property of the company running the station at which it is located. A ticket issued from it has identical validity to a ticket issued by from an online provider or at the booking office for the identical journey. What can differ is that many machines are set up in a way which makes it difficult to find certain options.

[atoz]

The ticket machine is obviously the property of the company running the station at which it is located. A ticket issued from it has identical validity to a ticket issued by from an online provider or at the booking office for the identical journey. What can differ is that many machines are set up in a way which makes it difficult to find certain options.

"A ticket issued from it has identical validity to a ticket issued by from an online provider or at the booking office for the identical journey."

Transpennine don't accept that. And I did use the machine carefully to avoid this scenario.

[mjr]

The ticket machine is obviously the property of the company running the station at which it is located. A ticket issued from it has identical validity to a ticket issued by from an online provider or at the booking office for the identical journey. What can differ is that many machines are set up in a way which makes it difficult to find certain options.

"A ticket issued from it has identical validity to a ticket issued by from an online provider or at the booking office for the identical journey."

Transpennine don't accept that. And I did use the machine carefully to avoid this scenario.

That should be taken to the regulators. It's little different from a fuel station refusing legitimate payment methods without warning, exposing you to various penalties.

[PH]

I don't know what the rules are regarding ticket machines, but the variations between brands certainly make it more complicated than it ought to be. When Birmingham New St reopened the Virgin machines were awful (They may still be, I haven't used them since) it was almost impossible to tell what the restrictions were, even if you were looking for them. And they wouldn't let you buy an off-peak ticket at peak times, making it difficult to get the first off peak train in the morning if you had two lift to negotiate with a bike.
This isn't really an office V's machine point, my experience at the New St ticket office wasn't any better, seeing I had a bike they wanted to insist I make a bike reservation, even though it wasn't required on half the trains.

[ANTONISH]

Last year at my local station I had to travel into London.
I used the ticket machine ( the screen was barely transparent ) and bought a ticket.
The automatic barrier - fortunately manned, refused my ticket - station staff pointed out that I had an off peak ticket.
Fortunately the ticket office was open and I was able to exchange it for a peak ticket - obviously for an enhanced payment.
I wasn't ultimately paying for the ticket so the cost was immaterial.
If I had got on the train with that ticket I wonder what the outcome would have been

I suppose that my mistake would have had me going back to the machine and purchasing a correct ticket - but I feel that some may struggle if a machine is all that's available.
I find it's much the same in France and Belgium.
Of course some of us have the option of driving but what of those who don't?

[Bmblbzzz]

The ticket machine is obviously the property of the company running the station at which it is located. A ticket issued from it has identical validity to a ticket issued by from an online provider or at the booking office for the identical journey. What can differ is that many machines are set up in a way which makes it difficult to find certain options.

"A ticket issued from it has identical validity to a ticket issued by from an online provider or at the booking office for the identical journey."

Transpennine don't accept that. And I did use the machine carefully to avoid this scenario.

As mjr has said, if they actually told you "We don't accept tickets bought from other operators' machines" that is a matter for the regulator, just as if they refused to accept a ticket because it was bought at another operator's ticket office or website. If they said, "This ticket isn't valid on Transpennine services" that's a different matter. It seems likely that what might have happened was that Operator X's machine sold you a ticket only valid on Operator X's services. That doesn't mean that X's machines only sell tickets valid for X's services. It might be that the machine is programmed in such a way as to preferentially present those tickets and not make the restriction obvious. There are other problems with some machines, such as glare on the screen, that can make using them difficult too. But you could also buy the same ticket from X's website or ticket offices. The real issue here, beyond the physical problems of some ticket machines, is the baroque ticketing and fares system.