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by bovlomov
2 Jan 2020, 12:20pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Yet Another Boris-bashing thread
Replies: 18
Views: 822

Re: Yet Another Boris-bashing thread

mattheus wrote:
bovlomov wrote:I am grateful that this platform has been provided for me to air my views on the PM. Until now there hasn't been enough space on the internet to accommodate the full range of his crimes.


It's a pleasure, I didn't think I could assist in the campaign against The Messy-Haired Satan, but it seems I can - hoorah!


If anyone else is reading this and feeling a bit useless and ineffectual, follow my example - you CAN make a difference :thumbsup:

Just one request. Can the 'Boris' in the thread title be changed to 'Johnson'?

When our local council first promoted it's 'wheelie bin' regime, my father would only use the term 'wheeled refuse container'. He felt that 'wheelie bin' was part of a propaganda campaign to give the sinister scheme a more friendly veneer. Same goes for Boris.
by bovlomov
2 Jan 2020, 12:07pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Yet Another Boris-bashing thread
Replies: 18
Views: 822

Re: Yet Another Boris-bashing thread

I am grateful that this platform has been provided for me to air my views on the PM. Until now there hasn't been enough space on the internet to accommodate the full range of his crimes.
by bovlomov
1 Jan 2020, 12:16pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Is anyone moving?
Replies: 209
Views: 8900

Re: Is anyone moving?

Vorpal wrote:The only thing that I can imagine ousting Johnson at this point is if he utterly fails to deal with some sort of major crisis.

Like Gove failing to keep a lid on his ambition. With friends like that, anything could happen.

With Labour so weak, now would be a perfect time for Gove to orchestrate Johnson's downfall, putting himself in line for the top job.
by bovlomov
31 Dec 2019, 9:31pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Is Labour finished?
Replies: 56
Views: 2014

Re: Is Labour finished?

pete75 wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote:
pete75 wrote:
So you want a one party state? Not an unusual view from someone on the far right. The British system needs a change in governing party from time to time.

I’d agree a change of party is a good thing, from time to time, just never Labour.


In the UK that effectively means the Conservatives ruling us permanently. In other words you want a one party state with only your party ruling. A somewhat extremist view.

It also assumes that the name of the party is inextricably tied to a set of policies or ideals. Plainly that is not true. Over my lifetime, Conservative policies and ideals have changed beyond all recognition. Some policies have changed beyond all recognition almost overnight. Labour policies have fluctuated greatly over its lifetime, on taxation, privatisation, defence and other issues.

Singling out the Labour Party as being uniquely unfit to govern makes absolutely no sense.
by bovlomov
31 Dec 2019, 1:31pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Is Labour finished?
Replies: 56
Views: 2014

Re: Is Labour finished?

pwa wrote:
bovlomov wrote:Believe it or not, my view of politics isn't primarily governed by how it immediately affects me.

I understand that, but do you accept that Labour cannot simply put forward a vision that appeals to the Labour membership and hope that it also appeals to the voters? Labour has to work out a nicer alternative to the current state of affairs, but one that appeals to people who have recently voted Tory. I don't think enough of the membership have twigged to that. It isn't what the membership wants that counts, it is what they can sell to the voters they need on their side, many of whom are well to the right of the Labour membership.

What depresses me, as a non-aligned voter, is that it doesn't seem to matter what Labour proposes. It will always be written off as uncosted, naive or reckless. Meanwhile, Tory spending, however improvised, short-term and cynical, is reported as if it is part of a plan.

Labour has been criticised a lot recently for trying to blame the media for its own failings. But I reckon the Labour Party could get away with much crappier policies if they were promoted with more media savvy.
by bovlomov
31 Dec 2019, 1:04pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Is Labour finished?
Replies: 56
Views: 2014

Re: Is Labour finished?

pwa wrote:
bovlomov wrote:
pwa wrote:The Living Wage move is not much on its own but I think it may signal a desire to appeal to folk who would previously have voted Labour, and if Labour are not concerned by that, they should be. I think the Tories are eyeing up the centre ground that keeps parties in power for a decade or more when they win it. Labour show no signs of wanting that centre ground. Which leaves them feel virtuous and pure and, of course, sidelined.

If Johnson is keeping a close eye on Hungary - and it seems he is - he'll know that slogans, xenophobia and fear-mongering are more powerful that first-hand experience. A few gimmicks (such as this latest one) don't have to be effective, as long as they can be trumpeted at every opportunity by a complicit media. By those same methods, Orban has kept enough of the population on board, even though most are materially poorer.

You may not be relying on the Living Wage, but I'm sure if you were you would regard an increase of 4x the rate of inflation as more than a "gimmick". It is not enough, but it it not nothing. And it is aimed at former Labour voters.

On it's own it could be less than nothing. Housing policies, benefit policies, reduced public services, failing health services... these could all be taking a lot more away than is being given.

We haven't seen anything resembling a costed strategy from Johnson. Until we do, I think we can call anything he does a gimmick.

Believe it or not, my view of politics isn't primarily governed by how it immediately affects me.
by bovlomov
31 Dec 2019, 12:48pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Is Labour finished?
Replies: 56
Views: 2014

Re: Is Labour finished?

pwa wrote:The Living Wage move is not much on its own but I think it may signal a desire to appeal to folk who would previously have voted Labour, and if Labour are not concerned by that, they should be. I think the Tories are eyeing up the centre ground that keeps parties in power for a decade or more when they win it. Labour show no signs of wanting that centre ground. Which leaves them feel virtuous and pure and, of course, sidelined.

If Johnson is keeping a close eye on Hungary - and it seems he is - he'll know that slogans, xenophobia and fear-mongering are more powerful that first-hand experience. A few gimmicks (such as this latest one) don't have to be effective, as long as they can be trumpeted at every opportunity by a complicit media. By those same methods, Orban has kept enough of the population on board, even though most are materially poorer.
by bovlomov
31 Dec 2019, 12:33pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Is Labour finished?
Replies: 56
Views: 2014

Re: Is Labour finished?

pwa wrote:I expect the Tories to move a little to the left (yes, really) and attempt to occupy the centre ground over the next few years, so yes, I do fear that Labour will be in the wilderness for another decade. The Tories are putting the over-25 Living Wage up by about 6% in April. I see that as a statement of intent for keeping working class support. But I think the Labour membership are too idealogically driven to look up and see what is happening around them. They are creating a vacuum in the centre.

I'm not sure this stand-alone tactic should be described as a move to the left. Without movement in other areas, it isn't part of any plan for redistribution. It's wealth and property inequality that is the problem, not income. That will continue to increase, unless the government has a strategy to tackle it. Government throwing money in various directions in response to crises - it's not a plan.
by bovlomov
30 Dec 2019, 9:07am
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: 5000 Britain First extremists join Tory Party
Replies: 87
Views: 3302

Re: 5000 Britain First extremists join Tory Party

We should be criticising our own country more than others. We have a stake in it and we have some small means of changing it.
by bovlomov
29 Dec 2019, 5:38pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: 5000 Britain First extremists join Tory Party
Replies: 87
Views: 3302

Re: 5000 Britain First extremists join Tory Party

I have no idea why anyone would think PH is a Tory Party supporter or apologist.
by bovlomov
27 Dec 2019, 6:06pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: ** The General Election Thread **
Replies: 1613
Views: 45936

Re: ** The General Election Thread **

AlaninWales wrote:The truth is that propaganda works and that view has been promulgated for various reasons, from both ends of the political spectrum for a generation or two.

And the middle of the spectrum. There seems to be an attitude in Education, from the ministry downwards, that the working class home is a brutish and uncultured environment from which a child should be kept away as long as possible (after-school clubs, breakfast clubs, holiday schemes). While school has in the past played a role in levelling up, I'm not sure that it does so any longer. Indeed, there has been research (must find it) suggesting that family life across all classes is more intellectually stimulating than the classroom.
by bovlomov
27 Dec 2019, 5:57pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: ** The General Election Thread **
Replies: 1613
Views: 45936

Re: ** The General Election Thread **

pete75 wrote:
AlaninWales wrote:So called unemployment black spots like Hull, Grimsby and Doncaster are but a few miles away from the Lincolnshire agricultural heartlands. Why couldn't the unemployed from those places move that relatively short distance to fill the vacancies instead of moaning about immigrants taking all the jobs. The reason why the immigrants have taken the jobs they hold is because they made the effort to find the work.

Could it be that some immigrants don't mind sharing accommodation and working anti-social hours, because they see it as a means to an end? If you already have a family, a community and somewhere to live, taking such a job requires a significant upheaval. I don't know. But I do know, here in London, many immigrants, both from the EU and outside, who were happy to share a room and work anti-social hours for a few years in order to get a foothold in the country. All over the world, immigrants tend to be more motivated than natives.

As I've said before - some of the arguments being made by Brexiters have some truth. The solutions, however, require deep changes to how our society functions, and no one is offering any ideas about that.
by bovlomov
27 Dec 2019, 5:15pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: ** The General Election Thread **
Replies: 1613
Views: 45936

Re: ** The General Election Thread **

AlaninWales wrote:Possibly due to racist comments like BR's above which are part of the narrative about working class people in Britain. "Give a dog a bad name" is a phrase which springs to mind.

Is it true though? This attitude to British workers comes from all sides, but not least from members of the present cabinet.

“The British are among the worst idlers in the world. We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor. Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music.”

“likely to be drunk, criminal, aimless, feckless and hopeless”.

If there is no truth in it, that message hasn't got through to many commentators, across the board. But if there is, surely it is worth asking why. Is there a large section of the population that is genetically predisposed to uselessness? It seems unlikely. Or is our society is not providing the environment in which people can flourish? That second thing seems - to me at least - to be blindingly obvious. In housing, education, employment, services, culture and air quality, the state is failing to satisfy basic human needs.
by bovlomov
27 Dec 2019, 1:26pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?
Replies: 1851
Views: 61898

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

PH wrote: I think the abuse may deter them, people have been more abusive to me on this forum than they ever have been in the pub.

Well done for sticking around. Despite appearances, most of us are quite nice in real life.
by bovlomov
27 Dec 2019, 12:14pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?
Replies: 1851
Views: 61898

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

PH wrote:This thread seems to have run it's course, he is in power and there's a huge battle ahead just to put up a credible opposition.

The thread definitely hasn't run its course. He is still in power and a new lie emerges every time he opens his mouth. We'll not be short of fresh material.

But it's true that ranting on forums won't change much.