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by Ben@Forest
9 May 2023, 6:31am
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: BEVs
Replies: 2122
Views: 108255

Re: BEVs

I've not gone through the 39 pages of this topic so this may already have been mentioned, but on top of (no pun intended) the effect of heavier EVs on small bridges and multistorey car parks, which seem to be considerable the more EVs are brought into the UK fleet of vehicles I have also just read this:

A further issue is what happens when an electric car hits a pedestrian or a cyclist. Because they’re so heavy, the impact can be worse than that of a normal car. Urban 4x4s used to get a bad press because they could flatten pedestrians like a tank, but an electric car can do the same. Because they’re so quiet – unless they come with the fake engine noises manufacturers are working on – people might not hear them coming.

Reasonable? And the fake engine noise issue seems to have been an ongoing topic. I was surprised when EVs came in without engine noise - l thought they were going to address their 'noiselessness'.
by Ben@Forest
3 May 2023, 6:24am
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Something's changed on here ....
Replies: 41
Views: 2189

Re: Something's changed on here ....

Manc33 wrote: 2 May 2023, 9:41pm The only way a political argument would get me heated would be if someone asked me to participate in it. :lol:

That's one thing that amazes me most about this place - a thread about Boris can go to 250 pages long, on a cycling forum. Yes, a cycling forum, not a politics forum, a cycling forum. Surely that's not right? Why do so many people waste their time arguing about it.
I've not looked at that thread for a long time (but may even have contributed to it in its first 25 pages) but I can bet it'll be largely the same six or seven posters making the same points (or often rather weak jokes) repeatedly. I'm not sure it's often an argument as much as people letting off steam and wondering why the world isn't the way they want it.
by Ben@Forest
2 May 2023, 3:17pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?
Replies: 1865
Views: 82073

Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

Biospace wrote: 2 May 2023, 2:00pm For over a year I've been concerned that it's possible Western sanctions on Russia have been affecting the West more adversely than Russia.

Russian pensions, the country’s minimum wage and salaries are keeping pace with inflation better, its economy appears to be more than surviving and possibly better than those in the West. They also appear to have better control of inflation than we do.

Meanwhile, the EU purchases Russian fuel through Indian and North African intermediaries which both helps the Russian economy while further harming the West - according to highly reputable sources Morocco bought about 600,000 barrels of Russian diesel throughout 2021, which in January 2023 alone had increased to 2 million barrels with another 1.2 million barrels arriving in the country in February.

Furthermore, the bond between Russia and China appears to have been strengthened by our response.
You are taking nearly all of that information from Russian sources; multiple agencies have said that Russian information regarding its own finances and economy are unreliable. What's the evidence for the Sino-Russian bond growing stronger? The Chinese are still not arming the Russians, it looks like that what Putin was angling for and has not got. But the Chinese are happy to buy his oil at knock-down prices.
by Ben@Forest
2 May 2023, 11:27am
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Something's changed on here ....
Replies: 41
Views: 2189

Re: Something's changed on here ....

This is rather like a keen, and generally law-abiding, cyclist being berated by someone who has a litany of complaints about rogue cyclists. What does one say?

And of course, makes you wonder if you're one of the people dragging things down... :shock:
by Ben@Forest
30 Apr 2023, 9:05pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?
Replies: 920
Views: 831633

Re: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?

roubaixtuesday wrote: 30 Apr 2023, 8:45pm
Ben@Forest wrote: 30 Apr 2023, 8:29pm
Psamathe wrote: 30 Apr 2023, 7:50pm The referendum voted for Brexit without any qualification as to what sort of Brexit....
This was unavoidable, under EU law the negotiations cannot begin until after the declaration to leave has been made. Politicians could or should not have promised what Brexit would look like because they could not possibly know.

One can understand this approach - otherwise the EU would be in a constant state of flux with different countries trying to negotiate leaving terms with possibly no intent of leaving - just trying to gain an edge.
No, that's not true at all.

The leave campaign could have proposed what outcome they envisaged.

This was deliberately avoided, as no possible proposal would have garnered more votes than remain.

None of which helps us move forward from the current fiasco.
It's absolutely true. The Leave campaign envisaged multiple outcomes which were not fulfilled - at least one that was repeatedly suggested was that we would obtain some dispensation to remain in the Single Market (because German car makers didn't want to lose British business) but there never any promise they could be. No promises as to exactly what the deal would or could be should have been made.
by Ben@Forest
30 Apr 2023, 8:29pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?
Replies: 920
Views: 831633

Re: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?

Psamathe wrote: 30 Apr 2023, 7:50pm The referendum voted for Brexit without any qualification as to what sort of Brexit....
This was unavoidable, under EU law the negotiations cannot begin until after the declaration to leave has been made. Politicians could or should not have promised what Brexit would look like because they could not possibly know.

One can understand this approach - otherwise the EU would be in a constant state of flux with different countries trying to negotiate leaving terms with possibly no intent of leaving - just trying to gain an edge.
by Ben@Forest
30 Apr 2023, 3:15pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?
Replies: 920
Views: 831633

Re: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?

Jdsk wrote: 30 Apr 2023, 2:33pm I agree: we're poorer than would otherwise be the case.

For me this trumps whether we were a net contributor or not.
It's not really a question of 'trumping' it or not. There were huge ructions in Greece which looked like there may be a Grexit, it of course didn't happen - because Greece had always benefited from the EU's largesse in pure financial terms. It's difficult to walk away from a relationship where you've always been given money.

Of course the deal was awful and led to 30 - 40 % youth unemployment rates and high unemployment generally. Really Greece would have done better with its own currency, but it is a pure psychological barrier - we get money from them.
by Ben@Forest
30 Apr 2023, 1:30pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?
Replies: 920
Views: 831633

Re: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?

Jdsk wrote: 30 Apr 2023, 12:51pm
Ben@Forest wrote: 30 Apr 2023, 12:44pm ...
However you cut it and however you may point out indirect benefits the UK was a net contributer to the EEC, EC or EU the entire period of its membership, the only other country which has been is Germany. And this despite the UK being more unaffordable than other countries for its own citizens for at least some periods - this was definitely true in the mid 1980s.
...
On the economics:

Do you think that Leaving has made the UK richer or poorer than it would have been if we hadn't?
The picture is of course confused by Covid and the Russian invasion of Ukraine but we are poorer. I'm not sure that's either the long-term outcome or the worst political scenario. I don't think large organisations slowly accreting more political or economic power is healthy, eventually and always people rebel against such structures.

But that's not the point I was making, middle-class people on middle-class incomes bleat about not being able to do their 180-day cycle tour or Jacintha not being able to do a year at Lyon University. These are not everyone's concerns and perhaps if both EU politicians and administrators and UK politicians had been cannier they'd have addressed the concerns of post-industrial Britain sooner, people don't feel left behind for no reason.
by Ben@Forest
30 Apr 2023, 12:44pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?
Replies: 920
Views: 831633

Re: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?

roubaixtuesday wrote: 30 Apr 2023, 11:17am Now we are limited to 90 days in 180, so our dream tour to Istanbul has to be curtailed.

If we want to work in the EU, we need a work visa.

Entry points require the inconvenience of a queue for passport stamps rather than an egate scan.

Added red tape, the exact opposite of what was promised.
The reality is though most UK citizens do not have 90+ day holidays, do not go elsewhere in the EU to work, and a high percentage of those who do are either posted there by their international company or meet an EU citizen that they then have a long-term relationship with.

Saying to most people 'it's bad for my way of life' cuts no ice with them. They could equally argue why didn't my dismal town get more money? However you cut it and however you may point out indirect benefits the UK was a net contributer to the EEC, EC or EU the entire period of its membership, the only other country which has been is Germany. And this despite the UK being more unaffordable than other countries for its own citizens for at least some periods - this was definitely true in the mid 1980s.

Every other country can point in some way to incoming financial assistance that was greater than their outlay, the UK cannot. That was the argument that those who wanted to remain could not make.
by Ben@Forest
30 Apr 2023, 7:41am
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?
Replies: 920
Views: 831633

Re: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?

pete75 wrote: 29 Apr 2023, 11:12pm
Carlton green wrote: 29 Apr 2023, 10:05am I do not believe that anyone can actually prove that the UK is both poorer outside of the EU and will remain so. With Covid and war in Ukraine it’s hard to tell what really is what and it’s also academic too. What’s important for the future is to set aside the referendum result and to work at making the future work for everyone. Don’t forget to vote Labour at the next election and if that requires a peg on your nose to do so then put one on.
Crikey a right wing Brexiter telling people to vote Labour - whatever next? We' don't need to explain why Britain is poorer as a result of your Brexit - can anyone prove we have the wonderful future promised by pro Brexit campaigners.
The irony is that what's happening now with inflation etc is much worse for all the Brexit voting, minimum wage serfs in dismal dumps like Redcar, Sunderland, Bradford, Hartlepool, Sheffield etc.
The more prosperous areas and people who voted remain will suffer far less and many of them not at all.
There's nothing like being described as living in a dismal dump to make someone think that southerners really understand the North. :?
by Ben@Forest
29 Apr 2023, 10:48pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists
Replies: 1299
Views: 70655

Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

I see that the Guardian has taken down a cartoon of Richard Sharp, which was criticised by a number of Jewish agencies, and a raft of politicians. According to the Jewish Community Trust it falls squarely into an anti-Semitic tradition of depicting Jews with outsized, grotesque features, often in conjunction with money and power.

The Guardian has already apologised to Sharp, l don't know if Rowson has.
by Ben@Forest
29 Apr 2023, 5:42pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?
Replies: 920
Views: 831633

Re: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?

roubaixtuesday wrote: 29 Apr 2023, 12:22pm
Ben@Forest wrote: 29 Apr 2023, 9:22am
roubaixtuesday wrote: 29 Apr 2023, 7:17am Politicians are IMO absolutely not all the same.

The likes of Johnson and Trump are another breed entirely from more traditional politicians, many of whom whether you agree with them or not are sincere in their attempts to improve things.

This is not a party political point; take note of the excoriating opinions of more traditional tories like Rory Stewart, Dominic Grieve and Max Hastings of Johnson.

The worst of politicians *want* you to believe all politicians are the same.
What is a traditional politician? We've had rabble-rousing politicians from time immemorial. David Lloyd George who we mainly remember for welfare reform and helping lead Britain to victory during the First World War was originally seen as a rabble rousing radical. He also was involved in various political scandals, had a long-term mistress and a few other sexual infidelities and was anti-semitic. His political acuity sometimes deserted him (as the quote below).

Germany does not want war. Hitler does not want war. He is a most remarkable personality, one of the greatest I have ever met in the whole of my life, and I have met some very great men.

And how do we view politicians like Corbyn and Abbott - are they traditional? If they are are they realistic or even competent (even if good campaigners for individual causes)?
The point I was making was that all politicians are not the same. I think your post nicely reinforces that!
However your original post makes your point that Johnson and Trump are not 'traditional' and that Rory Stewart, Dominic Grieve and Max Hastings somehow are.

I'd say that Johnson and Trump are entirely traditional of a 'type' of politician. I'd also say that Stewart is not and Hastings is not even a politician - and that he's indulged in some fairly ropey journalism.

And of course our politicians have been far more scrutinised in the last 30 years than the previous 300. I don't think someone like David Lloyd George would have had half the career he did have with his behaviour.
by Ben@Forest
29 Apr 2023, 9:22am
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?
Replies: 920
Views: 831633

Re: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?

roubaixtuesday wrote: 29 Apr 2023, 7:17am Politicians are IMO absolutely not all the same.

The likes of Johnson and Trump are another breed entirely from more traditional politicians, many of whom whether you agree with them or not are sincere in their attempts to improve things.

This is not a party political point; take note of the excoriating opinions of more traditional tories like Rory Stewart, Dominic Grieve and Max Hastings of Johnson.

The worst of politicians *want* you to believe all politicians are the same.
What is a traditional politician? We've had rabble-rousing politicians from time immemorial. David Lloyd George who we mainly remember for welfare reform and helping lead Britain to victory during the First World War was originally seen as a rabble rousing radical. He also was involved in various political scandals, had a long-term mistress and a few other sexual infidelities and was anti-semitic. His political acuity sometimes deserted him (as the quote below).

Germany does not want war. Hitler does not want war. He is a most remarkable personality, one of the greatest I have ever met in the whole of my life, and I have met some very great men.

And how do we view politicians like Corbyn and Abbott - are they traditional? If they are are they realistic or even competent (even if good campaigners for individual causes)?
by Ben@Forest
29 Apr 2023, 7:46am
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists
Replies: 1299
Views: 70655

Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

pete75 wrote: 28 Apr 2023, 8:30pm
Ben@Forest wrote: 28 Apr 2023, 9:46am I think you'll find only military aircraft are being used for this, and for good reason, firstly the crews are trained and secondly the aircraft have countermeasures which can confuse an incoming ground to air missiles. Just using a Ryanair jet isn't safe.

And our military is already overcommitted you can bet that by being deployed to Sudan those planes are not patrolling over the eastern boundaries of NATO or delivering provisions to Poland for onward transit to Ukraine.

Perhaps we need to spend less on the NHS and more on RAF planes? :?
Arguing against yourself there. Above you're saying the RAF's priority for evacuation should be UK citizens and now you're implying RAF planesshouldn't be taken off delivering provisons to a foreign country. Make your mind up.
Not really, l'm saying resources are limited. One could decide the priority is UK citizens only, the airlift takes 5 days and no more after that, the planes return to other duties. The idea RAF just has a number of planes and crews just sitting there waiting to carry out evacuations is false - the RAF has 42 transport planes in total, they will almost always all be either committed or being overhauled.

Interestingly about 8 years ago l was on holiday in Sweden, in a hotel in Uppsala there were a couple of RAF aircrews staying there (about 5 or 6 per aircraft because only a few were pilots). I don't know what they doing but Sweden obviously wasn't a NATO country, maybe an exercise, maybe working on surveillance or monitoring missions much closer to the Russian border than from the UK. I didn't ask.
by Ben@Forest
28 Apr 2023, 10:10am
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists
Replies: 1299
Views: 70655

Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

reohn2 wrote: 28 Apr 2023, 10:06am
Ben@Forest wrote: 28 Apr 2023, 10:04am
reohn2 wrote: 28 Apr 2023, 9:59am I meant military aircraft,sorry if I didn't make that clear.
How many military transport planes are employed patroling over eastern NATO,not many I should think
On R4 Today programme a couple of days ago it was said the aircraft had to pulled off other duties.
Did it say what other duties?
No, and I guess they'd mention operational deployments as little as possible. But we know that the RAF have had significant deployments in Estonia since the Ukraine invasion and RAF fighter squadrons have a lot of logistical support.