Cycling UK Forum

markjohnobrien wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 5:53pm I fundamentally disagree: the expansion of judicial review has been enormous and some historical perspective is needed as it was previously seen as peculiar and obviously wrong that every decision of government could be automatically scrutinised - otherwise, how could a government (of any political stripe) govern?
....

Personally I feel issue is we recently have had Governments who have failed to act within the law. And then Judicial Review is one of the only paths available to hold them to account. I suspect that the increase in the number of cases stems from Government who increasingly fail to respect our laws.

I'm no legal expert but I suspect the courts are pretty quick to throw-out cases that have no merit - so if it's a real punt it wont take much court resource.

Ian

Vorpal wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 5:52pm ....
She received a higher proportion of her earnings from the catering, but both were slow in arriving. She and her daughter ended up relying on her mum quite a lot last year. If she hadn't been able to do that? I can well imagine that some folks are in desperate straits.

It highlights the complexity of the support issues. I don't understand the intricacies of the entertainment business but was concerned when the Government declared big sounding numbers for the industry businesses - money which went to the companies whilst the actors, stage hands, etc. that those businesses relied on were mostly self-employed and many ended-up getting very little support (I know of one who had to move out of his flat and move in with his parents as friends in "same boat" had no money to lend just paying for food meant parental help).

In the case of the hospitality sector there must be a massive range of business types from small landlord owned Free-houses through to big Wetherspoons, small B&Bs to massive luxury hotels, etc. so support gets complex, particularly where you have self-employed and "gig-economy" workers. It always worried me that Johnson announced new restrictions at 17:00 and the 19:00 news had representatives of the hospitality industry on crying foul declaring their plight without recognising the death & health aspects, without recognising quite a few were cut lose on their own with no help. Different people will always prioritise different aspects but for me people dying and suffering long-term debilitating illness is pretty high on the "avoid" list and people getting no help higher than those getting some help.

Ian

thirdcrank wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 5:11pm

If people feel our Government have not supported certain sectors adequately then they can e.g. write to their MP, vote them out next election, etc.

I also have little time for the ongoing pressure from the hospitality industry.

(I sense that Vorpal is getting twitchy)

My personal opinion is that the hospitality sector has had quite a lot of help (maybe others feel they deserved more). I take this view more through seeing so many who got absolutely no help (despite their situations having been highlighted to the Gov.). I.e. I cannot assess the needs of the hospitality sector but note that before Covid was anywhere near humanity pubs were closing-down and there were too many (non-hospitality) getting no help. So my 1st priority would have been to direct help to those who got nothing.

So I don't see any contradiction in the two bits you quoted. It is true that most of my sympathies lie with some (non-hospitality) people and it is true that people unhappy with the way our Gov. have provided support can write/vote/etc. as they see fit.

Edit: Pre Covid, Pre-lockdown, pre-restrictions from August 2018:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45086080 wrote:Pubs are continuing to struggle with 18 closing a week in Britain, according to the latest industry figures.
...
Four out of five people had seen a pub shut down within five miles of their home in the last five years, it said.

Ian

Tangled Metal wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 5:04pm You're mixing up two independent events. At the time of the 2014 referendum Scottish independence would have meant leaving EU. Aiui even the SNP now admit that was true. Voting not to leave the UK at that time of the referendum would have been the only way to remain in the eu. At that time there was no announcement or Tory policy to renegotiate nor one to have a referendum.

The way you can say the future 2015 situation applied to 2014 referendum campaign is astounding revisionism imho. I guess it suits your politics so you can have that bias.

I don't see it as mixing things. Scotland was told that to remain in the EU it must remain in the Union. Not long after they followed that they were no longer in the EU.

I agree they were independent events but it was in Jan 2013 that Cameron promised that if the Conservatives won the 2015 General election they would hold a referendum on leave/remain in the EU (his Bloomberg speech). so the EU referendum was planned before the Scottish Independence Referendum happened.

Ian

thirdcrank wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 4:56pm Financial ruin to ordinary people can result in more than a minor inconvenience.

So can dying or long Covid. And as I say, in the UK we can make a choice about providing support to companies (or our Government can). So I assume "we" have chosen the level of support these businesses need to avoid financial ruin. If people feel our Government have not supported certain sectors adequately then they can e.g. write to their MP, vote them out next election, etc.

In terms of impact I have greater concerns for those who fell through the net for any Government support, whose situations were recognised early yet the Government did nothing to provide them any help (e.g. those recently changing jobs, directors of small businesses, self-employed actors, etc.). There are a fair number of people who got a lot less Government support than the hospitality sector.

Ian

thirdcrank wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 4:44pm The effects of financial ruin on people don't count?

I regard people dying and suffering long term debilitating disease and disability as more significant than business that could have rescue packages to help them through (oh, they did have rescue packages to help them through which is more than many small independent self employed had). Even more so when those using hospitality can pass on the disease to others doing e.g. essential shopping so the actions of e.g. pub goers can be killing (or long Covid'ing) people who chose to stay safe and not partake.

It's a question of choices. We are fortunate in the UK in that we are in a position to make such choices. Not every economy in the world has the same resources available.

Edit: Remember that proper socially distanced meals with all safeguards

The University of Warwick research suggests that the government scheme may be responsible for eight to 17 per cent of newly detected Covid-19 clusters in August and early September.

Long-Covid is estimated at 10%-20% of people testing +vs for Covid and younger age groups (35-49) suffer worse.

Ian

Tangled Metal wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 4:33pm Can someone confirm the timings of these events?

Referendum on Scottish independence.
Referendum on leaving the EU.
Cameron's attempt to renegotiate with the rest of the EU a new arrangement prior to launching the leave Referendum.

I thought the first went before the second and the last was about the time of the first or just after it.

If the renegotiation was before the EU leave referendum how does that affect the idea of lies in the Scottish independence referendum regarding the leaving EU with scotexit of the UK?

Of course you could say that renegotiation was cynical and they had no intention of succeeding. Might be right but hypothetically assuming it was genuine intention to remain by getting a new deal would that change the lies argument?

My memory was that Scottish referendum was 2014. Cameron announced he'd renegotiate a new deal with the eu if he won the GE then hold a membership referendum on being in the eu in 2015. Then 2016 was the UK referendum vote on favour of leaving by simple majority.

I'm just curious as to how you know for certain during the 2014 Scottish referendum that Cameron and the pro union campaign were lying when they campaigned with points such as independence resulting in Scottish exit of the EU. That seems like being able to see into the future which afaik is not possible.

I did use the term "lies" but I also used the word "untruths" and "untruths" is better. The Scottish Independence electorate were told (by the pro-Union/English) that if Scotland went independent it would no longer be a member of the EU and that if Scotland wanted to remain part of the EU it should vote to remain in the Union. That was clearly not the case (as Scotland voted to remain part of the Union and are no longer part of the EU) - so "untrue".

Cameron's "renegotiation" was always a joke. Did anybody really believe he could come up with anything that would satisfy e.g. the European Research Group and thus anything that would allow him to avoid an EU Referendum.

Ian

markjohnobrien wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 3:59pm

Psamathe wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 11:32am It will be interesting to see what happens to the spread of the disease as we "unlock". We've all been sold vaccination as the answer to our freedom but it can go both ways. Israel has a higher vaccination level than UK and is unlocking without problems. BUT Chile (which also has a higher level of vaccination than the UK) is seeing a massive climb in cases despite more vaccinated people (per 100 population) than UK. Chile's soaring cases has been blamed on variants, more people travelling more and lower adherence to social distancing - all of which could also be a risk to the UK.

(By "level of vaccination" I mean number of vaccinated people per 1000 population).

Ian

I agree on the grave risk of opening up the economy and reducing lockdown too quickly.

I have little time for the lobbying of the hospitality industry who have launched a judicial review against the “unfairness” of restrictions against pubs and restaurants.

Shows the need for reform of judicial review as it indulges the frivolous, the time wasters, and politically motivated.

I also have little time for the ongoing pressure from the hospitality industry. They seem only concerned about their profits and no concern for the deaths and health impacts they'd cause without the restrictions (impacts that would affect far wider groups than those visiting their establishments). But if they want a judicial review then fine, I support them being able to. I don't believe they will get anywhere and they have to recognise the risk of a societal backlash when they start getting e.g.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/eat-out-to-help-out-second-wave-coronavirus-rishi-sunak-covid-b1446586.html wrote:The UK government’s Eat Out to Help Out scheme caused a "significant" increase in new coronavirus cases, a new study has found, and contributed to the “acceleration” of the pandemic.

They (hospitality industry) don't seem to appreciate that people die from Covid and many who don't suffer for extended debilitating impacts for ages with long covid (including younger people).

Ian

mjr wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 3:38pm

Jdsk wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 3:26pm "Apple and Google block NHS Covid app update over privacy breaches":
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... y-breaches

Yep, caught with their hand in people's personal details, again. Bang to rights. Is this why they so readily agreed to suspend press conferences during the national mourning?

There is some weird stuff going on with "National Mourning" - like why make it difficult for people with a disability to book train tickets online? Why don't they want disabled people travelling during "National Mourning".

But the app issue just another demonstration of how UK Gov. has no idea whatsoever about the concept of "privacy".

Ian

One minor feature request (might already be there and I've missed it). For route planning I'll often specify Start and End points then add via points to tweak the route (reduce ascent). Then on to next leg and e.g. new end point (or start point) but the vias (maybe quite a few now) remain. Some option to remove all via points would be nice. But also I do recognise that more and more options complicates the User Interface and accommodating everybody's "minor requests" might result in a horrendously complex number of options.

Ian

Jdsk wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 12:55pm "The government is set to a launch an independent investigation into former prime minister David Cameron’s lobbying for the now-collapsed Greensill and the role of the scandal-hit financier Lex Greensill in government."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ying-rules

Sounds like a good idea. Now, who's the current independent adviser... ?

Jonathan

I think Cameron's lobbying pales to insignificance compared to a businesswoman's company allegedly getting resources and taxpayer money whilst allegedly having an affair with the leader of the granting body (a certain Mr Johnson). That does not make Cameron's dirty business OK but it does scream that the individual now launching the Cameron investigation might feel like cooperating just a little bit.

Ian

2_i wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 12:37pm +1 Lezyne here too. I upgraded the gauge to digital. Runner up is the Topeak Morph Mini.

How/what did you do. Min has gone "sticky" in that it reads when 1st pump happens (e.g. 0 jump to 4 bar) but gradual changes and it sticks. Still useful as you just bleed the pump (back to zero) give a pump and it reads but if there is a cheap'ish easy change I'd be interested.

Ian

irc wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 12:00pm

Jdsk wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 11:12am "Ministers believe Boris Johnson 'will be forced to grant permission for a second Scottish independence referendum if Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond win two thirds of Holyrood seats at election in May'"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -vote.html

I know that that is the SNP's plan... but this is a Daily Mail piece about a Sunday Times article about Ministers in London...

... very strange.

Jonathan

The SNP/Alba could get 2/3rd of the seats on 49%of the vote. Are we to have a referendum every 5 years forever?

My personal opinion (not qualifying for a vote in any referendum) is that the justification for a referendum now is much stronger because of the lies/untruths told to the Scottish electorate last time, mainly that if they went independent they'd be out of the EU and if they want to remain in the EU then staying part og the Union is their only option. Given the Scottish Brexit vote and those previous untruths certainly strengthens the justification for a referendum now.

Ian

mjr wrote: ↑11 Apr 2021, 10:43pm.....
This picture is available under CC:

https://cycle.st/p84611
....

Interesting; my understanding cyclestreets have take a CC BY-SA 3.0 image and add a "Tweet this" link where Twitter licensing terms conflict with CC BY-SA 3.0 i.e. other than the copyright holder the CC BY-SA 3.0 license cannot be used to publish on Twitter/Facebook and some other social media platforms as those platforms assume a license incompatible with CC BY-SA 3.0.

In theory they could have got round the licensing issues (or many of them) by creating a derivative work where the attribution and license terms were part of the image e.g. watermark. But they haven't. On the page https://cycle.st/p84611 they have included all necessary stuff to comply with the license but the "Tweet this" link will encourage others to break those license terms and you cannot expect people to appreciate the terms of the license when offered such social media links,

(My understanding of CC licensing)

Ian

Jdsk wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 11:31am There's quite a lot of discussion in the archives:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=139298

I like my Lezyne Micro Floor Drive. NB there are are HP and HV versions, and with and without a gauge.

Jonathan

+1 (with pressure gauge - though after a few years the gauge is a bit "sticky" now).

Ian