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by pjclinch
17 Apr 2021, 9:16am
Forum: Cycle Camping sub-forum
Topic: How light can you go?
Replies: 126
Views: 5041

Re: How light can you go?

Ironically given the "just look at Hilleberg" stuff, Hilleberg are not big on "ultralightlight", indeed they go out of their way to say they're not.
While in their original day Spacepackers were cutting edge ultralight, these days the trend that Saunders started has been followed to the point that an 80s/90s/00s Saunders is in the "reasonably light, reasonably tough" sector, not actually that different to a Hille red/yellow label, and certainly not left behind like cotton bell tents for backpacking.

If you're looking for bigger and lighter than a Spacepacker Plus you'll need to look at a firm going deliberately very light, and that entails other compromises (like very thin, condensation prone floors, rather light zips needing more care, most typically an inner-first pitch). And given how big the porches on a SP are you'll probably lose something there.
Maybe a Big Agnes Copper Spur HV UL3, for example, but I'd personally not look to fix something that ain't broke.

Pete.
by pjclinch
16 Apr 2021, 10:12pm
Forum: Cycle Camping sub-forum
Topic: How light can you go?
Replies: 126
Views: 5041

Re: How light can you go?

iandusud wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 7:29pm You originally suggested that I should replace the Spacepacker Plus with something bigger and lighter...
I think you have the wrong man. I never suggested you replace it at all, that was leftpoole. I think the Spacepacker (and SP+) are great tents irrespective of date, leftpoole seems to disagree.

I have added a Kaitum 3 to my tent selection to do stuff that my Spacepacker doesn't do so well, not to replace it.

Pete.
by pjclinch
16 Apr 2021, 5:59pm
Forum: Cycle Camping sub-forum
Topic: How light can you go?
Replies: 126
Views: 5041

Re: How light can you go?

leftpoole wrote:
Pete,
I had a Jetpacker and then a Spacepacker . Both good at the time. But, as you, time passes, age catches up, tents get better and easier to pitch as you mentioned all in one. Saunders were very good at the time.
I’ve only got one tent now! A Hilleberg Niak.
If tye person who has been using a Basepacker or whatever for 30 years, then sure it’s worn out by now? I think they should watch a few Hilleberg YouTube videos of people pitching tents, or even Force Ten (Vango)
A JetPacker is a whole different kettle of fish and I think warrants much of your criticism, but what about a Spacepacker is difficult to pitch, or hard to get in to/out of? How is it hard to cook in the porch (and don't forget the Plus is quite a bit bigger)?

I've got a Tarra and a Kaitum too so I know what's involved pitching a Hille, but I don't see that makes my Spacepacker difficult. It certainly doesn't have me feeling a need to replace it.

My Spacepacker is "only" 24 years, but is fine. My dad's Plus is about 30... and is fine.

Not keen on the Niak myself, it only has one porch and I prefer two. Easier to use, however old.

Pete.
by pjclinch
16 Apr 2021, 4:48pm
Forum: Cycle Camping sub-forum
Topic: How light can you go?
Replies: 126
Views: 5041

Re: How light can you go?

iandusud wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 4:16pm
leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 9:59am Why not buy more modern more easy to use much lighter and larger tent?
Out of interest what would you suggest as a replacement?
For a Spacepacker Plus...
Faced with a similar decision (though ours isn't the Plus, we really wanted bigger) and wanting to keep a porch each we went for a Hilleberg Kaitum 3, wait a wee bit and the lighter 3 season Helags version will be out. This won't save you any weight on what you have, but gives you quite a bit more usable volume inside which is nice if the weather is keeping you in.

But I suspect leftpoole thinks a Spacepacker is something other than what it actually is...

Pete.
by pjclinch
16 Apr 2021, 3:57pm
Forum: Cycle Camping sub-forum
Topic: How light can you go?
Replies: 126
Views: 5041

Re: How light can you go?

Bmblbzzz wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 3:46pm Those would be pertinent comments if we were talking about a new tent for someone. But we're talking about a tent that someone (and their wife) has been using for three decades. Presumably they don't find it a struggle, or if they ever did, they've worked out how to do it by now.

Suitable recommendations to someone looking for a new lightweight tent (or bike or reverse-torque hyperthrust widget) need not apply to someone satisfied with what they already have.
Very much this. Or you'd have to replace everything you had every three or four years (if you believe the brochures, probably every 6 months to a year!).

One of the things I particularly like about my old gear is I bought it to last my for years, and it has lasted for years. Only if the ground has really shifted (e.g., LED lighting, lightweight waterproofs) should one feel the need to consign working gear to the nostalgia cupboard.

Pete.
by pjclinch
16 Apr 2021, 3:50pm
Forum: Cycle Camping sub-forum
Topic: How light can you go?
Replies: 126
Views: 5041

Re: How light can you go?

leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 2:20pm Try the struggle getting into and out of simply to pitch it! Then struggle to get out in the morning particularly if it’s raining. Try cooking in the porch.
I suspect you're not actually that familiar with the tents in question. They're easy to pitch, they're easy to strike, they're easy in and out, and there's masses of space in the (twin) porches to cook and get out of wet gear.

Not quite as clean up as my Hilles which are all-in-one rather than fly-first and have a specific design point of being able to be pitched by one person in a blizzard wearing mittens, but you can say that about just about most other tents, certainly anything "ultralight"

Pete.
by pjclinch
16 Apr 2021, 3:43pm
Forum: Cycle Camping sub-forum
Topic: How light can you go?
Replies: 126
Views: 5041

Re: How light can you go?

I still use my Spacepacker because it's still a good tent. 1.8 Kg, enough room (just!) for 2, 2 large porches (and those still usefully larger than anything else about today in a similar tent) and it's taken whatever the weather has thrown at it. Nothing else I can see quite hits its sweet spot for what I want in a solo tent quite well enough to replace what is very much an old friend (same goes for my old Lowe rucksack, just because it's over 30 years old doesn't make it bad).

Along with Hilleberg in Sweden, Saunders were one of the first adopters of silicone elastomer coatings and while incremental developments have been made, such as applying to even finer nylons, there's nothing really "out of date" about the fly. Might be a little heavier than, say, Kerlon 1,000 but (like Kerlon 1800) it's stronger.

Saunders also introduced the first non-dreadnought groundsheets, and while you can get thinner and lighter today that isn't necessarily better. I think the Spacepacker groundsheet is at a sweet-spot in the compromise between light and tough.

The Spacepacker was the very first transverse single hoop. Looking at the current preferred alternative with that layout, which is an Akto-a-like, the "modern" one (dating back about 25 years) uses fewer pegs and the prop-poles at the inner ends give you more face-space in the inner lying down, but that's about it. In the other direction, the Spacepacker has twin porches with two doors in each so it opens up for better through-venting, and a cleaner aerodynamic profile if aligned to the wind than the Akto which is handy in a big blow.

It ain't broke and doesn't need fixing, why fix it?

RS died in 2012, see http://www.christownsendoutdoors.com/20 ... maker.html and the company had wound down a little before that. But there was nothing wrong with the tents: more a case of everyone catching them up rather than Saunders getting left behind.

Pete.
by pjclinch
16 Apr 2021, 9:11am
Forum: Does anyone know … ?
Topic: if a Moulton would...
Replies: 80
Views: 2256

Re: if a Moulton would...

rogerzilla wrote: 15 Apr 2021, 9:45pm I got mine down to about 21lb as a fixie but have just reconfigured it with a Sturmey-Archer AM hub, which meant putting the rear brake back on. Then I did the mudguards too. Probably 26lb again.

It's as light as a normal bike, if that normal bike is a tourer!
Pretty much this. If you look at a steel diamond frame of similar general use it's about that heavy. Mine has racks, mudguards, dynamo hub & lights, 8 speed hub gear and weighs about what a "nice" steel bike of similar setup would be.

I prefer the Moulton as I find the handling more to my taste (what some people feel is "twitchy" I characterise as "responsive") and I find the ride more comfortable (whether it would solve the original wrists issue of this thread I don't know), but it isn't the sort of night-and-day difference people expect before trying one, more a general je ne sais quoi that invites being ridden.

Pete.
by pjclinch
16 Apr 2021, 8:58am
Forum: Cycle Camping sub-forum
Topic: How light can you go?
Replies: 126
Views: 5041

Re: How light can you go?

Jdsk wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 8:15am
iandusud wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 8:10amI will be buying inflatable air mattresses to replace our ancient Thermarest mats but I'm also considering buying some folding stools. These will add 1kg to the load but I consider that worth it to not have to sit on the ground.
Do you already have the seat straps for the Thermarests?
This is my preferred solution, as a higher chair typically doesn't work inside a lightweight tent as the roof is too low, but just sitting on the ground I find quite uncomfortable for any length of time without a back support of some sort.

Neo-Airs will go in to T-Rest chairs, the more recent chair kits work better with the Neo-Airs than the originals and they're quite a bit lighter too. It's a bit more of a faff than with a "classic" T-rest but it works okay. You also need to let the mat down quite a lot for chair use, but again this is "bit of a faff" as opposed to deal-breaker. We have rectangular mats which are a non-issue in the chair kits, I don't know how much (if at all) the rounded off ones cause problems.

Pete.
by pjclinch
16 Apr 2021, 6:46am
Forum: Cycle Camping sub-forum
Topic: How light can you go?
Replies: 126
Views: 5041

Re: How light can you go?

KTHSullivan wrote: 15 Apr 2021, 11:56pm
leftpoole wrote: 13 Apr 2021, 4:49pm
KTHSullivan wrote: 31 Mar 2021, 3:18pm A really good tome on going lightweight from a serious obsessive is "The Pacific Crest Trail Hikers Handbook". Ray Jardine

ISBN 10: 0963235923 / ISBN 13: 9780963235923

He gives most of the major outdoor gear manufacturers a serious slating. But a very good read.
Very dated opinions. Jardine is old school in a big way! Try reading modern books/magazines.
Please enlighten us.......probably a play on words. What tomes would you recommend?
I don't have a recommendation for books, but will note that Jardine started the "ultralight" revolution, so his opinions on the gear industry are mainly aimed at companies who were, at the time, going through a period of "creeping featuritis', where the top of the line was marked out by more bells and whistles and accordingly heavier weight (e.g., Berghaus Trango jacket, Karrimor Condor rucksack, Wild Country Quasar tent etc)
Since then, "less is more" has become recognised as a valid design goal across the industry, and while they might not go quite as far as the cottage industry purists you can now get excellent very light gear from relatively mainstream firms.

Ironically for a company who rather went from light minimalism in their early years to typically overwrought, Rohan had a marketing tag of "everything you need, nothing you don't". While I wouldn't really apply it to the jacket they were hawking with those words, they are a good principle to keep in mind when lightening up but not going too far.

Pete.
by pjclinch
15 Apr 2021, 12:49pm
Forum: Cycle Camping sub-forum
Topic: Views on/experience of this tent
Replies: 10
Views: 341

Re: Views on/experience of this tent

jimlews wrote: 14 Apr 2021, 8:44pm My ancient Phoenix Phreerunner tent is definitely expiring.

So I'm looking to replace it.

Apart from the horrible colour
Is this any good?

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TEVA1P/za ... cking-tent
It's an Akto-a-like so the basic layout is proven, but IME with tents the devil tends to be in the detail, and the detail is best assessed by crawling around in it and pitching it.
Check on the returns policy, but you should be able to order it and set it up as long as you do it either inside or outside on something to keep it clean and use your existing pegs so it remains as new.

Pete.
by pjclinch
15 Apr 2021, 8:06am
Forum: Does anyone know … ?
Topic: Good trousers.
Replies: 49
Views: 1150

Re: Good trousers.

thirdcrank wrote: 14 Apr 2021, 8:41pm I also have a broad-brimmed Rohan rainhat - currently unavailable. My wife says it all gives me the look of a priest.
I have one of their "Hilltop" hats from when they end-of-lined it. Broad brimmed, waterproof, fleece lined and with ear/neck cover it looks completely daft (and then some) but on a foul day it's awesome, on foot or on the bike, and at my age I'd rather look daft than be soaking and shivering!

Pete.
by pjclinch
15 Apr 2021, 8:00am
Forum: Does anyone know … ?
Topic: Good trousers.
Replies: 49
Views: 1150

Re: Good trousers.

mattsccm wrote: 14 Apr 2021, 9:36pm Bags are a rather loose fitting but closer/better cut than stuff like Craghopper and the cheaper things. Actually, although Rohan have said otherwise, they are a different cut nowadays. Well my 1983 ones are different to my 2019 ones in the same size.
All a bit floppy around the lower leg.
The Stretch Bags version are closer cut around the leg. I don't know whether it's the stretch or they've expanded the waist a bit (or both), but I wear the Stretch ones with a belt but never bother with the polycotton ones. Other difference is the front pockets have a smaller expansion gusset, so the popper is pretty much superfluous. The stretch helps make up for it, but you can fit things in the originals that won't make it in to the Stretch version. The ladies' version has the expansion panel removed entirely, and they've been extensively re-cut (for my wife, to the good: she didn't really get on with the originals but likes S-Bs as smartish/work trews).

Pete.
by pjclinch
14 Apr 2021, 7:16pm
Forum: Does anyone know … ?
Topic: Good trousers.
Replies: 49
Views: 1150

Re: Good trousers.

mjr wrote: 14 Apr 2021, 5:12pm My Rohan Bags fit OK but did go fuzzy at the leg cuffs after a year or so in regular rotation use. The fabric is not the nicest feeling, though. A bit scratchy. And like most technical clothing, it's probably dumping plastic microfibres into the water each wash.
Bags are 50/50 poly-cotton, so there's some but probably not huge amounts relative to many. The fabric dates from the 70s, and was originally designed by a Danish firm as a down-proof fabric for quilts (so needed to be a fine, close weave, which coincidentally makes it windproof).

I'm surprised you find it scratchy. I like Airlight specifically because I find it very smooth to the touch, even more so as it ages (and this helps with its original function as a bedding material)

Pete.
by pjclinch
14 Apr 2021, 3:16pm
Forum: Does anyone know … ?
Topic: Good trousers.
Replies: 49
Views: 1150

Re: Good trousers.

thirdcrank wrote: 14 Apr 2021, 2:49pm The Rohan "market-niche" is interesting. I've tended to assume they go for the person whose self-image is of an independent traveller - perhaps epitomised by their final clearance section being called The Souk. I suppose there are more truly independent travellers among cycle tourists than other modes, but my impression is that a lot of their customers are "smart casual" types. Who like lots of pockets.
It's changed over time. Initially they were very much bleeding edge mountaineering/hillwalking. One of their jackets was on the first oxygen-free ascent of Everest and they were among the first to realise that you could have light stuff that was still tough and high performance, back when tweed breeks were the go-to. Others caught on through the 80s and the founders lost control after financial issues in the late 80s, being bought out by Clark's shoes (!), and main designer and driving force Paul Howcroft died in the early 90s.
At that point the committed gear junkie was more interested in Lowe, Mountain Equipment, Berghaus, North Face, Patagonia etc. and they re-focused themselves on to travel wear: the sort of thing you can slum around an airport, have your documents securely to hand, and then not need a change of clothes when you arrive. This "jack of all trades, master of none" kind of thing works well for work too (I'm sat here sipping my afternoon coffee in 90s Rohan pullover and trousers), and also general purpose cycling and just generally getting about without needing special clothes for everything.

The "travel wear" thing still seems to be dominant, though they still pull really good outdoor pursuits stuff out of the bag from time to time too. Their base layers are very good IME and Troggings are my go-to winter walking and XC ski touring trousers (unlike most "outdoor" trousers they actually aren't festooned in pockets to make them heavier, less comfortable and slower to dry). The waterproofs seem to go in Brilliant/Meh cycles, but while I'm not keen on the current mountaineering options the Hilltop is one of the very few knee-length serious waterproofs you can get anywhere these days.

In summary, worth a look and a try on. Where it works, it generally works well and they have always been good at finding great technical fabrics, even if some of the designs they've applied them to have been... a bit odd at times!

Pete