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by Carlton green
29 Mar 2024, 9:24pm
Forum: Electrically assisted pedal cycles
Topic: Is 250w enough power for modest speed up steep hills
Replies: 339
Views: 29769

Re: Is 250w enough power for modest speed up steep hills

deliquium wrote: 29 Mar 2024, 4:04pm
Bonefishblues wrote: 29 Mar 2024, 3:50pm 23 pages and some hundreds of posts later is the answer yes? Asking for a cyclist :D

ETA
11011 posts has a nice symmetry


Recently I added a 250w German 'panzer like' Cube Reaction Pro bike with a Bosch Gen 4 CX 85Nm motor and a 625W battery to the Deliquium stable. It's scarily powerful, in fact I've dialled down the power available. It will get me up the Llanberis Pass without a bead of perspiration being created.

So to my mind YES, 250w is plenty for steep hills.

My other e-bike has a 50Nm Fazua motor - and that too help me climb the Welsh hills, but requires somewhat more effort on my part - but still makes it easy :)
:lol: There is some illustration of my earlier point here. The Bosch Gen 4 CX can actually push out 600 watts at 70 rpm - which is several times the power that one might expect an ordinary rider to be able to generate - but the motor is rated at 250 watts. Smoke, mirrors and marketing …
https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/products ... ce-line-cx
by Carlton green
29 Mar 2024, 4:04pm
Forum: Electrically assisted pedal cycles
Topic: Is 250w enough power for modest speed up steep hills
Replies: 339
Views: 29769

Re: Is 250w enough power for modest speed up steep hills

Bonefishblues wrote: 29 Mar 2024, 3:50pm 23 pages and some hundreds of posts later is the answer yes? Asking for a cyclist :D

ETA
11011 posts has a nice symmetry
The answer is yes; of course the bike’s power train, from motor shaft to driven wheel, needs to be appropriately geared.
by Carlton green
29 Mar 2024, 4:00pm
Forum: Electrically assisted pedal cycles
Topic: Is 250w enough power for modest speed up steep hills
Replies: 339
Views: 29769

Re: Is 250w enough power for modest speed up steep hills

stodd wrote: 29 Mar 2024, 10:28am
CJ wrote: 27 Mar 2024, 12:35pm Because what matters from a regulatory point of view is the amount of mechanical power delivered, not the electricity consumed in getting it - quite a lot of which is wasted in heat.

Rather like some of the comments on here!
I agree with your point, but maybe should be worded: Would would matter if the regulations were sensibly phrased.

A bit of a quibble, but the distinction is the cause for some of the friction and the resulting heat in the argument.
There are similar sillies in many areas, eg where ICE motors are classed by cc.
Interestingly for some classes of motorcycle licence as well as the maximum ICE CC’s the maximum allowable power output is also specified. Note, not what the engine could sustain with more fuel fed to it but the maximum power output it’s allowed (by design and purposeful restriction of fuel) to deliver.
by Carlton green
29 Mar 2024, 3:22pm
Forum: Electrically assisted pedal cycles
Topic: Is 250w enough power for modest speed up steep hills
Replies: 339
Views: 29769

Re: Is 250w enough power for modest speed up steep hills

UpWrong wrote: 10 Mar 2024, 5:20pm Have to say the controller rating makes sense but I'm not an engineer. Suggestions as to why this wasn't the method used?
Because, like sheep, we follow others and because you need to be aware that salespeople mislead. A motor can be continuously rated at some level to give marketing advantage and in this case underrated. Rate your motor at 250 Watt but know that it can deliver 500 Watt for quite a chunk of time and then make sure that the electrical power is there for it to do so. Result is a 500 Watt motor with a 250 Watt label on it and a happy customer ‘cause he goes fast.

The level of power should always have been set at 250 Watt of electrical power supply to the motor and even with inefficiencies of say up to 20% that’s still a good chunk of power and in the region of what a fit cyclist might turn out. Folk should be glad of the advantage that a bit of electrical assistance gives them and be mindful to keep a large gap between mopeds and cycles.
by Carlton green
27 Mar 2024, 9:29pm
Forum: Campaigning & Public Policy
Topic: "Why is the right at war with cyclists?... "
Replies: 27
Views: 1548

Re: "Why is the right at war with cyclists?... "

Nearholmer wrote: 27 Mar 2024, 6:37pm The thing is, that article doesn’t purport to be news. It says “opinion” in clear red lettering at the very top. Whatever complaints can fairly be levelled at the Guardian, deliberately, or even neglectfully, blurring news with opinion isn’t one of them.
Fair point, yet the article is in a news paper.
by Carlton green
27 Mar 2024, 6:07pm
Forum: Campaigning & Public Policy
Topic: "Why is the right at war with cyclists?... "
Replies: 27
Views: 1548

Re: "Why is the right at war with cyclists?... "

cycle tramp wrote: 27 Mar 2024, 9:12am The confusion lies when a person's point of view is dressed as a news item. Some are easier to spot than others.
Interestingly enough that could apply quite well to the original article …

It seems that all of the news media is to a greater or lesser extent biased and a source of partial information.
by Carlton green
26 Mar 2024, 5:48pm
Forum: Campaigning & Public Policy
Topic: "Why is the right at war with cyclists?... "
Replies: 27
Views: 1548

Re: "Why is the right at war with cyclists?... "

axel_knutt wrote: 26 Mar 2024, 4:55pm
Jdsk wrote: 25 Mar 2024, 9:12pm "Why is the right at war with cyclists? We’re not ‘wokerati’ – we’re just trying to get around":
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... get-around

Jonathan
It's not about cyclists, it's motorists. Here's how they react when they're held up by road works. I recall a similar article about tractor drivers not so long ago.
As ever, and in all activities, including cycling, there’s a small percentage of: nutters; misguided; and desperate people. Such folk shouldn’t be labelled as motorists, well certainly not regarded in anyways as representative of motorists, but as part of some dysfunctional group.
by Carlton green
26 Mar 2024, 4:01pm
Forum: Campaigning & Public Policy
Topic: "Why is the right at war with cyclists?... "
Replies: 27
Views: 1548

Re: "Why is the right at war with cyclists?... "

Nearholmer wrote: 26 Mar 2024, 8:12am A. Twiddler has hit the nail bang on the head, and if you think that the othering and hate that we see on the surface now in the UK is bad, just dip down into bottom half of the internet, and look at what flows out of a combination of the US far right, and European (including Russian and formerly Ukrainian) movements that are effectively nazi-revivalists.

There is some genuinely, deeply disturbing/chilling stuff out there. I saw something yesterday which advocated burning transgender people in ovens, and it was attracting comment after comment in support, for instance.

There is organisation and money behind a lot of this stuff too, state actors using it for destabilisation purposes, commercially motivated big business using it as a tool in the pushback against legislation aimed at tackling climate change etc, as well as rich loonies doing it out of twisted ideology. Then there is Musk, running an on-line publishing house for this stuff in the name of free speech.

So, a large slice of the current government decided that the best way to engage with it all is not to challenge it head-on, but to become fellow-travellers, in the deluded belief that they will benefit from it at the ballot box. In so doing, they’ve invited the devil into our collective parlour. At the moment, only professional spooks, and strangely enough Michael Gove, seem to get how dangerous it is.

As cyclists, we simply find ourselves in the crosshairs in a small way.

Where this all goes, I don’t know, but I see no organised opposition to it, either from “the guardians of democracy and peace” that we elect, or at the sort of “street fighting” level that I recall from the 1970s and early 1980s when the enemy was the NF, which in retrospect looks like a baby outfit compared with the forces of darkness at play now.
Yep, that’s the bigger picture - or certainly part of it. We should all be very concerned but, being stupid, we’re not. The Ministry of Defence is majorly out of date and we with it if we don’t understand that our country is under hidden attack.

Gove, he’s not liked and of limited ability, but he’s still worth (critically) listening to. Even folk we don’t like sometimes say useful things.
by Carlton green
24 Mar 2024, 8:35pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?
Replies: 1876
Views: 83200

Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

UpWrong wrote: 24 Mar 2024, 7:57pm So the US warns the Kremlin of an imminent Islamist attack on a public gathering such as a theatre, and the Kremlin tells them to stop interfering. Islamist terror attack happens, Putin is silent for 24 hrs and then points the finger at the Ukranians. The man is despicable and pathetic.

The more interviews I hear with Russian defectors the more I hear them say the only way to deal with Putin is tell him that if he wants war then that is what he'll get. We need to stop backing off.
What goes through Putin’s mind is anyone’s guess and I think that few people have any idea of his aims and tactics. One thing for sure is that he and his advisors are not to be underestimated and we almost certainly are doing just that.

I read that a missile from Russia to Ukraine went via Polish air space. That didn’t happen by accident and there are several messages in that action …
About 20 Russian missiles and seven drones targeted "critical infrastructure" in the western region of Lviv. No damage has been reported.
One of the cruise missiles entered the airspace of neighbouring Poland, a Nato member, the armed forces announced.
"The object entered Polish space near the town of Oserdow and stayed there for 39 seconds. During the entire flight, it was observed by military radar systems," the armed forces said in a statement.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68648815
by Carlton green
24 Mar 2024, 4:09pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Just how long will it take to turn this ship around?
Replies: 103
Views: 2969

Re: Just how long will it take to turn this ship around?

pete75 wrote: 24 Mar 2024, 11:00am
Carlton green wrote: 22 Mar 2024, 3:26pm
pete75 wrote: 22 Mar 2024, 1:54pm

I have indeed heard of it, and know that it theorises that when the tax rate goes beyond a certain rate tax revenues fall.
Whether it is relevant or not I do not know but:
# I know people for who the taper off of family benefit at (what was until recently) £50k was a disincentive to try to earn more.
# I know people for who the removal of personal allowances at - I think - £100k is a large disincentive to try to earn more, they just go part time and particularly so if their partner is on good money or they’re not going to earn much above £100k.
Personal tax allowance is tapered at losing £1 of allowance for every £2 earned over £100,000. In other words a £10,000 a year pay rise from £100,000 will still leave you £4,000 a year better off.
One person I know well earns over £100k, indeed she often gets a tax bill over that amount. It doesn't put her off increasing the profitability of her practice. She says the government takes a lot of tax from her but public services have to paid for, and she's still left with more than enough to get by on.
I think you miss the point that I try to make about the fiscal hurdles and disincentives that withdrawal of allowances put in the way of those who earn just enough to be punished by them. I wonder - but can’t be bothered to work out - how much someone who has a £100k tax bill earns, maybe it’s upwards of £250k. That’s a figure that would, after tax, be a rather nice take home, an enviable amount that one could live quite comfortably on … and at that income level the loss of personal allowances would be relatively insignificant.
by Carlton green
24 Mar 2024, 3:56pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Pictures of your bike(s)
Replies: 1924
Views: 584070

Re: Pictures of your bike(s)

rjb wrote: 4 Nov 2023, 7:27pm
Carlton green wrote: 4 Nov 2023, 6:25pm
rjb wrote: 4 Nov 2023, 3:31pm Tarted up a bit into a speed machine.
Yes, looking rather sporty and it’ll doubtless fly along. Interesting about the brakes.
I had to revert back to the weinmann caliper as the dual pivot needed more cable pull than the weinmann drop bar levers pulled. But pleasantly surprised how good they are now. :D haven't tried them in the wet, but it is only a dry weather bike. :wink:
By happy chance I was prompted by your post and earlier thoughts of small wheel bikes with rear brakes that have compromised cable runs. I started a thread on that topic which led me to stainless steel die drawn (and hence quite smooth) inner cables. I changed the rear cable on my Mixte to die drawn stainless steel and the rear brake is now (improved to be) pretty much as good as the front … others might achieve similarly helpful results…

Of course single pivot side pull brakes aren’t the best, so every improvement you can get is useful and can be used. I’m certainly very pleased by the improvement gained by using (smoothed and near frictionless) die drawn cables 🙂.
by Carlton green
23 Mar 2024, 2:13pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Just how long will it take to turn this ship around?
Replies: 103
Views: 2969

Re: Just how long will it take to turn this ship around?

853 wrote: 23 Mar 2024, 1:32pm
pliptrot wrote: 23 Mar 2024, 10:29am How inflated salaries are not properly taxed is an obscenity given the dire state of British society in 2024.
The rate of tax for anyone earning over £125140 is 45 percent. What rate of tax do you propose, and what percentage of these people do you think would move to a different country with lower taxes if the 45 percent rate was increased?

https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates
Tax rates and bands can also be found here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... t-and-past
Obviously Scotland has a slightly different set of rates and we might learn from their experience - includes avoiding as well as copying.

I’m in favour of returning personal allowances to high earners, the current situation is not equitable to folk who earn a little more than £100k, as in my post up-thread.

More tax bands are needed, at say the £50k (40%), £100k (45%), £150k (50%) and £200k (60%) marks. A tax rate of 60% on income above £200k seems not unreasonable to me - payback into the society whose existence allows both such high salaries to be earned and income to be safely spent. Arguably an even higher rate would be reasonable for those captains of industry and commerce ‘earning’ in excess of £500k per year.

That some people will choose to go elsewhere is inevitable, but I do wonder whether we’d be better off without them and whether their absence would leave space for folk focussed on building a better society for them to live in rather than amassing massive personal wealth.
by Carlton green
22 Mar 2024, 11:43pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: Is this terminal?
Replies: 50
Views: 2533

Re: Is this terminal?

531colin wrote: 22 Mar 2024, 6:57pm
Carlton green wrote: 22 Mar 2024, 6:14pm ……. I think that folk who give advice for either their own ends or to cover their backside should be sued, but it ain’t going to happen.
I’m going to paraphrase what I think you mean……..
“ On an occasion where a customer presents a piece of equipment which may or may not be damaged to an extent which threatens the customer’s safety, if a trader recommends the equipment should be scrapped in order to sell them a new one, or in order that the trader cannot be held responsible in the case of failure and subsequent injury to the customer, the trader should be sued. “

Is that what you mean?
Would you prefer the trader to say that everything will be fine, even in situations where they can’t possibly know that?
That’s only partially correct, sorry if you misunderstood.
# I would prefer the trader to be, to the limit of their knowledge, perfectly honest in their judgement and in their ability to judge.
# When a dealer doesn’t know whether an item is unsafe or not then he should say so.
# When a trader says that something is dangerous then he should do so in honesty and use expertise to validate that judgement.
# Some traders will choose to give customers false or misleading information in order to make another sale, not all but certainly some and I’ve met too many of the some. That’s fraud and such dealers give others a bad name and should be dragged before the courts … but it won’t happen.

I hope that that clarifies things for you.

It would have been helpful if you had include my full text and what Mike Sales had written too.
by Carlton green
22 Mar 2024, 6:14pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: Is this terminal?
Replies: 50
Views: 2533

Re: Is this terminal?

Mike Sales wrote: 22 Mar 2024, 1:39pm If a shop condemns a frame they have lost nothing, and may well gain a sale.
If they okay a frame they are laying themselves open to expensive problems.
Which way would you decide to advise?
^^ This is how it works and in a lot more places than bike shops too. Sometimes the advice that you get is worth less than you paid for it, can unnecessarily cost you money, and is as likely as anything else to mislead you. I think that folk who give advice for either their own ends or to cover their backside should be sued, but it ain’t going to happen.
by Carlton green
22 Mar 2024, 3:26pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Just how long will it take to turn this ship around?
Replies: 103
Views: 2969

Re: Just how long will it take to turn this ship around?

pete75 wrote: 22 Mar 2024, 1:54pm
853 wrote: 22 Mar 2024, 1:06pm
Nearholmer wrote: 22 Mar 2024, 9:48am Personally, I’m in favour of progressive income tax (higher rates for higher bands of income), but would rather see that done overtly than by the semi-covert erosion of allowances, even if the net result is the same.
Presumably you haven't heard of the Laffer curve, which states that when the tax rate goes beyond a certain rate tax revenues fall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve
I have indeed heard of it, and know that it theorises that when the tax rate goes beyond a certain rate tax revenues fall.
Whether it is relevant or not I do not know but:
# I know people for who the taper off of family benefit at (what was until recently) £50k was a disincentive to try to earn more.
# I know people for who the removal of personal allowances at - I think - £100k is a large disincentive to try to earn more, they just go part time and particularly so if their partner is on good money or they’re not going to earn much above £100k.