Cycling UK Forum

Got it, thanks for summing that one up so easily, a better effort than me rambling on.... The weekly spin, really is, not much more, than a token gesture...
BB

Here's one answer for you.

"Footways and cycle paths are inspected annually as part of a detailed, walked inspection of the entire network that starts each April"
Most trees and wild plants are just coming out of their dormant state, so are they projecting what it's going to look like in June/July/August... they can't. Using FOI I can ask for a copy of the last detailed walk.

Here's half an answer, it doesn't carry much weight;
A driven inspection of the main A12 carriageway is completed each week. Obvious defects and other problems with footways and cycle paths that can be identified as part of these driven inspections will be recorded alongside any defect recorded for the carriageway and will then be corrected. However, any defect recorded is currently associated with the main carriageway and not identified separately as being related to the footway or cycle path in our repair database.

So each week the cycle path is inspected from a driven inspection. Well, from the trash I've seen, little, or nothing is done. So, what's the scenario ? the Inspector is sitting in the passenger seat, with the window open, craning his/her neck to see the pathway, he can't see the footpath wholly from the carriage way. At what speed is the car/van travelling at... 60...50....40...30...20mph. If it was 20, 30 or 40mph they'd just create a tailback, for miles and miles, they wouldn't want to do that, I'm sure. So what's an acceptable speed to make an assesment of the cycle pathway ? To put it bluntly, they can't see the topography of the area in or around the footpath from a car or van, there can only be the thinest of inspections. The word inspection is nothing more than a weasel word. The definition of inspection is the act of looking at something carefully !
So, how is anyone supposed to differentiate between defects to the main carriageway and defects of the cyclepath when it's not identified in their db ? Any half decent db design should categorise with specifics such as "attributes".... So a category could be Road and Pathway Repairs, the attributes would be Pathways and Carriageways, each with their own db ID... that's it in simplistic term.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is only one person in a car/van making an "inspection" of both road and pathway. - Another question using FOI perhaps.

I think I've learn quite a bit from their answers. I would never have guessed that's how these "inspections" are carried out and I don't think anyone else has, it's more information and helps build a picture, the bigger the picture the better the understanding of their practices.

I can still ask the questions you suggest, for now, I'll wait, but they won't get lost.

BB

I have photographic evidence of my injuries, as I've said before, they're date and time stamped, standing in said location, with blood ! Ideally, a video of the crash would help greatly, but I don't have that, so I'm quite happy to leave decision(s) to the courts, if necessary.

The pathway is not widely used, what % of cyclists would think of reporting the condition, < 20pc ? ... what % would try and report the condition of the pathway; < 5% ..... what % would know who to report the condition of the pathway to <2pc. Think about it, how many cyclists, or even motorists report potholes; not that many, Council websites make that available to the public, even on roads with what apppears to be something on the scale of a "sink holes" few report it, it's lack of confidence in local councils + human nature, Brits don't really like to complain. At the beginning It wasn't clear, who was responsible for the maintenance of the pathway, I thought it would be my County Council.

There is a cap on costs via Small Claims, that's the whole idea of it; inpart, so Solicitors don't get whopping/inflated costs, this gives the man on the Clapham Omnibus access to Justice, without significant costs. Also, you have to consider the Judge too, they can always pull a rabbit out of the hat, it's not always black and white, remember you're in their front room. I'd have to be some scammer, time waster, going to all this trouble of making up a conveluted story that the fairies, who live under the mushrooms, at the bottom of my garden would be proud of, I'm not.

The pathway won't be lost, as a consequence of one incident, not a belief, a view based on the balance of probabilites. What are they going to do with it, plant it up with Cosmos, Rudbecki, Echium Pininana and wild flowers...They won't plant trees, they're very unforgiving if a car hits them. As long as there continues to be not enough money around to construct a third lane, or widen existing ones of the A12...the pathway is safe, in my humble opinion.

BB

Thanks for the reply Rob. I believe Government agencies have to respond to an MP within a specific number days, something like 14 days is in my head. Thanks for suggesting this. When I spoke with HE over the phone, they cleared everthing up in around 48hours, which in fairness to them is quick....a bit late for me though I nearly ended up on the A12 which is a really busy dual carriage way, in lots of ways I was very lucky. As I have an official claim against them, (their suggestion), I will wait until I have their response, they only have around 30 days left now, so too not long. If their response is -ve I'll got down the Small Claims Route, but in parallel to that, I'll write to my MP, for now that'll be my strategy. A Solicitor, no.. it appears and at times seems, they can be a hit and miss; the curates egg.

The suggestions on here have been pretty sound.

Thanks Mr......

Reply from National Highways / Highways England today ....

My FOI request; "Will you send me records of your maintenance days, plus the specific tasks your performed for; May, June, July and Aug 2023 for the A12 cyclepathway, between Witham and Kelvedon ".



RESPONSE from H/E

"Advice and Assistance

We, National Highways, do not inspect footways and cycle paths with the same detailed frequency that we inspect carriageways.

Footways and cycle paths are inspected annually as part of a detailed, walked inspection of the entire network that starts each April.

A driven inspection of the main A12 carriageway is completed each week. Obvious defects and other problems with footways and cycle paths that can be identified as part of these driven inspections will be recorded alongside any defect recorded for the carriageway and will then be corrected. However, any defect recorded is currently associated with the main carriageway and not identified separately as being related to the footway or cycle path in our repair database.

In many cases, the highway inspector will fix minor defects and trim back vegetation when found or identified.


Thoughts / comments much appreciated.

BB

Hello Cowsham .... I think most cyclists, by their unique place on our roads and pathways can get up close and personal to many objects quickly, straighten things out with little fuss, it's almost a natural thing to do... At traffic lights, if a van, or lorry, has tie down strap(s) dangling in the wind like bunting at a Covid garden party (no further comment) .... I let the driver know, they've always been appreciative and tidy up, on the odd occassion I've done it for them...
Before I open my mouth to the driver, there is the usual frisson between cyclist and driver !

BB

Hello harriedgary....

HE rarely touch certain parts of the pathway, I'm unsure why, I only travel on it around once a month, occasionaly twice, usually when I ride out with Schils on Sat morning up at Marks Tey.

That's a good tip to use Google Maps.... thank you.

Guerilla grooming type 2: cycle paths....I like that idea. I can think of any number of times I've pulled branches, bits of car...and so on off the road...when it's been safe.... I'm sure plenty of others have to. Something that never seems to get touched on this pathway is gravel, and the random lumps of lorry tyres.

BB

I reported it to the Police so I have an incident nr, they really weren't interested, I at least have a record if nothing else. I pressed them several times and eventually a Police Sergeant called me, again, he didn't want to know, he said is was a civil case, yes, they were certainly digging their Cuban heels in. I'm not 100pc sure if what they say is correct, at the time I had read a couple of articles which said it was a criminal offence. Once I put my claim through with HE...(at their suggestion) - I let the police be.

HE cleared the area where the incident happened within 48hrs, timewise, in one way, I can't really criticise them for speed, I was surprised. I did blitz them with photos of my injuries, legs, hands, upper arm and so on... perhaps that helped....or maybe a quite day...

The NHS, I often don't now what to say about them, they have so many, many problems from bottom to top and top to bottom.

BB

It is a proper mess, plastic bottles, paper... some parts are showered with gravel, does it fall from the sky ?....Plus, there is always shards of glass... The thing is, it's a direct route and car free..... better than faffing with busy, winding, country lanes and wondering what's coming around the next blind bend. I split my time between Essex and London, by a long way I prefer the cut and thrust of riding up there, the visibility is generally better, car drivers are very much used to bikes swarming around them, they might not love us all, but I don't mind being shouted at from time to time. Then there is the speed limit, generally 20mph... Granted it's not everyones cup of tea...perhaps certain personality types it suits better, dunno know. The other bonus is the outer ring of Regents Park...it's blooming great; jump on a group, get dropped by a group, find another group, jump on, no drama....and you might see a llama or giraffe on your way around !

The interesting one this year, is the Giant Hogweed, it's really taken hold over this way, it's nasty stuff. A biennial in theory, so it'll flower in it's final year and put on a growth spurt, some plants though last for up to 4 years, but that's more unusual. I'm unsure if HE treat (kill) them with a chemical of some sort. They're plenty of dead ones around which look quite spooky in their skelatol state. It's the very large ones, at full height that I notice, so it's possible they have all come to the end of their natural life and not been treated. It's the brown Monty Don courds which have brought on the horticultural chat, apologies for that.

Take care on the roads ... BB

Hello Thirdcrank.....

Thank you for the link, that's very helpful.

I've got a lot of photographic evidence of all my injuries, damage to clothes and bike, all date and time stamped, plus the exact location of the crash, thanks to Google pin. I have copies of all my correspondece with HE. Using FOI, you never quite know what may, or may not, be thrown up.

"cannot rely on the special defence set out in section 58 Highways Act 1980 " As suggested I'll do my homework, to give myself a better understanding of sec 58 and the arguments around it.

My present course is really dictated to by HE, it's really their move now, at present I have no control over them.

BB

Hi Johnathan ...

Thanks for writing back.

I'll walk over to my surgery later this afternoon and see what they suggest, thanks for the heads up on that one.

I've used the Small Claims Court once, about 25 years ago, so remember very little about it. I supported a friend around 4 years ago; lesson learnt; know what your talking about and have hard evidence on hand. I'm not daunted about opening a case via the Small Claims Court, I would like to think HE would settle before going to any hearing, time will tell.

Interesting that you can estimate your claim.
https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for ... court-fees

BB

Hello again, Ladies and Gents.

A bit of an update, nothing too exciting.

As one of two suggested, Highways England are likely to drag this out, I'm approaching day 60 and heard nothing yet.

In the meantime, I have put in a FOI as suggested....for all correspondence between myself and Highways England;
to include, voice records, inhouse messaging. images, emails, forms with free text/data fields submitted via their website.

I've also requested the records of their maintenance days, plus the specific tasks performed for;
May, June, July and Aug 2023 for the A12 cyclepathway, between Witham and Kelvedon.

I decided against getting a full medical report until I hear from HE, plus it's a proper pain getting a Doctors appointment where I am, but that's another topic.. Fingers on both hands seem to be taking a lot longer to heal than I expected, pain still around the joints.

I've a feeling, because this is taking so long, the Small Claims Court is the route I'll end up taking.

Hopefully my next update will be bit more interesting ...

Thanks again everyone .... BB

Hi Jonathan.... I'll keep you updated as things progress.... I'll chase them up at the end of the month, and ask for an update. BB

Hi Gaz... A big thanks for your reply. This is where I am today.

Since my earlier posts I've discovered The Highways Agency (THA) are responsible for the bicycle/pedestrian path which runs parallel to the A12. Generally I've found the pathway really helpful, it's free of cars and a good route one... from Witham/Kelvedon...to Marks Tey, it's not picturesque though.

I spoke several times to THA, firstly, to report the condition of pathway, It'd be fair to say collectively their staff have a positive outlook. The impression was, they took my complaint seriously and wanted to do something about it. Sure enough they cleared the area I reported in 2 days. I didn't receive any report/email from THA to say they had cleared the area I reported. It's worth noting at this point I hadn't sent any images. It was also suggested I complete a "red" claim, based on what I told them about the accident.

Completing the "Claims Form" is a bit laborious, it's car based, but it gave me the opportunity to upload the set of photos I took and explain how I found myself in a storm drain. I listed the damage to my bike, clothes and personal injury. Interestingly, some of the fingers on both my left hand and right are still painful, soft tissue damage. I used to play basketball at school and into my early 20s, the pain is quite similar to having your fingers bent back by not catching a ball correctly. I loved the game.
I received a reply from THA 2 or 3 days after completing the claims form. It simply stated they would respond to my claim within 90 days. That's where I am today, waiting for their response. It will be interesting to see what the next steps are; how they respond; play everything with a dead bat, or make some kind offer.
I have attached some images of the crash site, which should make my description less abstract. I'm unsure of all the damage to my bike, I'd like to have the frame scanned (it's carbon) to see there are any hairline cracks, alignment and so on. The bike seems to handle differently at speed. The bike is a Trek Emonda SLR 6 with Mavic carbon wheels. I’m currently using my winter bike.

Hi Johnathan .... I believe it's Essex Highways (Essex County Council). I wanted to get a police report number first, so everything is square with them, as I mentioned earlier I was curious about where the authority lies.
What puzzled me was if it's a criminal offence, then the police should know, i'm trying to cover all angles.

I am no longer a member of any nat cycling group.

Some guidance I would really appeciate, I've a strange feeling Essex Highways is where I'm going to meet the most resistance, my plan is to submit my paperwork to them tomorrow. The choice of no win, no fee solicitors I found to be mind boggling... I was on the point of throwing the dice.

Do you know if there is a way of attaching an image to a message, it would then give you, and others, a better idea of what I have been trying to describe....

BB