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by Ivor Tingting
26 Oct 2019, 6:50pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior
Replies: 109
Views: 11132

Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

rualexander wrote:
meandros wrote:.....The thing is, though, the service costs to replace that for a Rohloff would probably be just about as "cheap" as getting a new A11 hub alltogether...


Any Rohloff hub shell failures which I have read about have had the shells replaced free of charge.
A new Alfine 11 hub costs around £250.


I believe that is the case although I have not come across owners who have experienced failures themselves. Obviously failures have happened as Rohloff now supply compression rings to be fitted before the hub is built into a wheel. I think the problem may have affected older hubs and where the wheel was not built correctly according to Rolloff's advice. Maybe Brucey can enlighten although he is probably sick to death as this issue does the rounds fairly frequently. Must be that time of year again. I know SJS stand by their wheel builds for Rohloff hubs. I shouldn't think Mr Shimano is quite so supportive if owners have failures with their Nexus or Alfine hubs.
by Ivor Tingting
26 Oct 2019, 6:45pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior
Replies: 109
Views: 11132

Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

geocycle wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote:
geocycle wrote:Provocative post! 60,000km of more or less trouble free riding makes me want to politely disagree with you.


Who me? I've not yet ridden 60k km of trouble free riding. If you are directing your comment to me then it's a provocative post yourself without providing anything to substantiate your disagreement. We are not mind readers.


Apologies Ivor, was referring to the OP. My experience is much the same as yours.


What relief! I am glad to hear that you too have enjoyed hassle free Rohloff ownership. I hope you continue to do so.
by Ivor Tingting
26 Oct 2019, 6:41pm
Forum: Helmets & helmet discussion
Topic: Helmets in Spain
Replies: 56
Views: 9366

Re: Helmets in Spain

Mike Sales wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
This sounds like advocacy to me.

Click upon Board Index and then Campaigning and Public Policy and you will find the Helmet Sub Forum.

I confess to missing Molly's helmet promotion. I have been away.

Discussing insurance questions is not advocacy.

If you take a look at this article about the situation in Australia (where helmet mandation has not reduced casualty rates you may understand my dislike of helmet pushing.

https://road.cc/content/news/268038-australias-mandatory-helmet-laws-have-become-tool-disproportionate-penalties-and







[moderated] All I have done is state I wear a helmet out of personal choice of self preservation so riding in Spain wear it IS mandatory to wear a helmet would be a non issue for me. Even if I didn't I would get one to comply with their rules as I believe when in Rome ....... I would not want to be stopped and handing over my hard earned cash to some zealous copper and his mate. I would rather do to a Decathlon in Spain or Narbonne and buy a cycling helmet before I started riding there. [moderated]


I am sorry if you feel I am picking on you.

My concern is to use facts to ward off the threat of compulsion.

I don't think posting opinions on a forum can be called bullying or a power trip.

Again, I don't want to upset you, so "basta".


I do not wish to get into a helmet debate. I respect your choice not to wear one and leave it at that. I wouldn't dream of quoting stats or what ever surveys to justify my view over yours. You are just as entitled to not wear a helmet as I am to want to wear one. I do so out of personal choice how every correct or incorrect my decision making is. It is my decision. I am comfortable with it. But in Spain I believe it is compulsory to wear one. You aren't going to change this. For me as I say it is a non issue because I wear one, but if I didn't I would get one simply to comply with their rules and to avoid being stopped and fined. That is just me. I hope you would respect my view. To me it makes common sense. But I appreciate others such as you might take a contrary view. I am fine with this. Please enough.
by Ivor Tingting
26 Oct 2019, 6:30pm
Forum: Helmets & helmet discussion
Topic: Helmets in Spain
Replies: 56
Views: 9366

Re: Helmets in Spain

Mike Sales wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote: Twice now I have commented on this thread in support of wearing a helmet which makes this thread irrelevant but each attempt my comment has subsequently been REMOVED. Nasty. Third time lucky. I suspect the Spanish paramedics are no different to Uk ones who when they arrive to help you when you are lying injured in the road, the first thing they are ask is "Have you hit your head? Good to see you wearing a helmet!" I know, as twice it has happened to me and on both occasions I was asked this and a helmet saved my head from injury. When I have toured in the Picos Northern Spain I have always worn a helmet and experienced no problems.


This sounds like advocacy to me.

Click upon Board Index and then Campaigning and Public Policy and you will find the Helmet Sub Forum.

I confess to missing Molly's helmet promotion. I have been away.

Discussing insurance questions is not advocacy.

If you take a look at this article about the situation in Australia (where helmet mandation has not reduced casualty rates you may understand my dislike of helmet pushing.

https://road.cc/content/news/268038-australias-mandatory-helmet-laws-have-become-tool-disproportionate-penalties-and

“A person who drives in a dedicated bicycle lane faces a A$191 penalty. A cyclist will be slugged almost twice as much for riding in that same lane without a helmet.”


The fines are “a terrific little earner” for the NSW government, they say. “From 2016-2019, 17,560 penalty notices worth almost A$6 million were issued to cyclists. Over the same period only 95 fines were handed out to drivers for unsafe passing.”


Fines have also risen considerably in some areas. In New South Wales (NSW) the offence once carried a fine of A$73, but in March 2016 this was increased by 445% to A$325.
A year later, we reported how the change had also coincided with a sharp rise in the numbers being fined. Failure to wear a cycling helmet is currently the most-commonly issued on-the-spot fine in the state.
The fine is out of step with penalties for other, more serious offences, argue Quilter and Hogg. “In NSW, only when car drivers exceed the speed limit by more than 20km/h does the fine exceed the A$344 for failing to wear a helmet.


[moderated] All I have done is state I wear a helmet out of personal choice of self preservation. Riding in Spain it is mandatory to wear a helmet so this would be a non issue for me. Even if I didn't wear one I would get one to comply with their rules as I believe when in Rome ....... I would not want to be stopped and handing over my hard earned cash to some zealous copper and his mate who I couldn't understand. Plus the insurance aspect and debate about possible injuries with or without helmets is a valid one particularly travel insurance when touring abroad. I would rather visit a Decathlon in Spain or Narbonne and buy a cycling helmet before I started riding there.
[moderated]
by Ivor Tingting
26 Oct 2019, 6:08pm
Forum: On the road
Topic: Advice on a hit and run accident.
Replies: 11
Views: 1459

Re: Advice on a hit and run accident.

I was hit and run by a driver in 2014. You have my sympathies. You don't mention whether you were injured or the extent of any injuries or damage to your bike? The police in my case ceased their investigations pretty sharpish. NFA - car or driver cannot be identified despite me giving a full reg. 4 weeks if I recall it took them.

Anyway in terms of compensation for any injuries you might have or repairing/replacing your bike you will have to apply to the Motor Insurance Bureau (MIB). It's quite straight forward but there is or there was a threshold of £300 on claims. The repairs to my bike came to just under £400 and my injuries would only have been classed a superficial so I didn't claim. The £300 thresh hold is really unfair if you are cyclist but that's how it is or was. Don't know if it is still the same. If you are a member of British Cycling or CyclingUK you can see if their solicitors will help you in a civil claim against the MIB, but I don't know if they will because they will want to recover all their costs and don't know if they can do so with an application to the MIB. They probably can.

If you can give more information of the circumstances of your hit and run that would be very helpful. I hope you weren't injured too badly and have now made a full recovery.
by Ivor Tingting
26 Oct 2019, 5:46pm
Forum: Helmets & helmet discussion
Topic: Helmets in Spain
Replies: 56
Views: 9366

Re: Helmets in Spain

Mike Sales wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote:I refer you to the OP's title and question.

Re: Helmets in Spain



The real world position is being worn on your head as with cycling anywhere in the world. When in Rome as they say. If you wear a helmet anyway there is not an issue. I come from personal choice of self preservation. There is no way I would want the awkward situation of being in a country where I couldn't speak the language, my Spanish is very poor, of having to pay an on the spot fine of unknown quantity should I be stopped by an over zealous copper and his friend for not wearing one. I should imagine any on the spot fine would easily exceed the cost of a basic cycle helmet. But each to their own.


Yes, the O.P. asked about the enforcement position, not about efficacy, as I understand it. Certainly responders seemed to think so.
I am not clear what your first sentence means.
Clearly if you are going to be fined for not wearing, a helmet is a good idea. I would count a helmet law as a minus in deciding on a holiday tour.
You seemed to feel the need to go further in helmet advocacy than informing about the likelihood of getting pinched.

As you admitted, advocacy belongs in the helmet ghetto.


What is the helmet ghetto? Re-read what the OP originally asked which is what I quoted for your convenience above. No mention of enforcement, YOU have assumed this. Ok it can be implied but also so can other important issues such as what the Spanish law states on wearing or not wearing a cycling helmet and the practical side difficulties if caught riding without a cycle helmet. I believe the law says you must wear a helmet. Obviously if you don't you run the risk of being fined. As I say those who wear a helmet it's non issue, but the OP indicates he won't and his subsequent post is,

further wrote:Thank you all,don't think I will bother wearing one,I have never worn one in the UK


And then,

further wrote:I must admit i hadn't thought about the insurance thing Mmmmm


You seem to be the one fixated on efficacy.

It is raised by oldun in the context of insurance. Why don't you have a go at him? Why are you singling me out? Every one else makes out they don't wear one, a cap instead, so why am I not allowed to say I do and therefore it has not been an issue for me in the past meaning it's a non issue? Just comply with the rules of the country you are visiting. Then you have no worries. When in Rome. Simples.

oldun wrote::lol:
mattheus wrote:The helmet would make the same amount of difference as it does in a country where they *aren't* required. So there are very few situations where the insurer could wriggle out of paying much of your claim.
Your choice though - your head!



I wonder if a claim would be paid in full if a non seat belt wearing car driver was involved in an accident were the injuries would have been less severe had he/she been wearing a seat belt . I know insurance companies never try to wriggle out of paying claims , but you never know do you ?.....it could happen .
by Ivor Tingting
26 Oct 2019, 5:23pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior
Replies: 109
Views: 11132

Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

geocycle wrote:Provocative post! 60,000km of more or less trouble free riding makes me want to politely disagree with you.


Who me? I've not yet ridden 60k km of trouble free riding. If you are directing your comment to me then it's a provocative post yourself without providing anything to substantiate your disagreement. We are not mind readers.
by Ivor Tingting
26 Oct 2019, 5:09pm
Forum: Helmets & helmet discussion
Topic: Helmets in Spain
Replies: 56
Views: 9366

Re: Helmets in Spain

Mike Sales wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote:
Surprised this comment has not been removed by the forum censors for being pro helmet and not according with the general anti helmet brigade on this thread. Twice now I have commented on this thread in support of wearing a helmet which makes this thread is irrelevant but each occasion my comment has been REMOVED. Nasty. I suspect the Spanish paramedics are no different to Uk ones who when they arrive to help you when you are lying injured in the road, the first thing they are ask is "Have you hit your head? Good to see you wearing a helmet!" I know, as twice it has happened to me and on both occasions I was asked this and a helmet saved my head from injury.


I quite agree: pro helmet efficacy threads should be removed to the helmet ghetto.

Perhaps if I point out your mistakes about efficacy it will be.

What do you think would be the effect on cycling casualties if a country passed a law mandating helmets? If the wearing rate increased from about a third to near one hundred per cent overnight? Surely there would be a perceptible effect on casualties if helmet wearing was effective?
This happened. The country was Australia and the change in cycling casualty rate insignificant. How do you explain that?

There is no country where helmet laws have reduced casualty rates. Note that this is an argument against helmet laws, but also an argument against helmet efficacy.

Paramedics (and medics) are trained in injury repair, but not in how to reduce rates. In this they are subject to the same biases as the rest of us. Henry Marsh is a neurosurgeon who cycles around London lidless.

Calling those who disagree with you a "brigade" is a poor debating style.


I refer you to the OP's title and question.

Re: Helmets in Spain
further wrote:We might be going to the Costa Blanca next year,what is the real world position with cycle helmets ?
Grateful for any input
C



The real world position is being worn on your head as with cycling anywhere in the world. When in Rome as they say. If you wear a helmet anyway there is not an issue. I come from personal choice of self preservation. There is no way I would want the awkward situation of being in a country where I am contravening rules and unable speak their language, my Spanish is very poor, and as a result having to pay an on the spot fine of unknown quantity should I be stopped by an over zealous copper and his friend for not wearing one. I should imagine any on the spot fine would easily exceed the cost of a basic cycle helmet. But each to their own. As I say I wear mine so not a problem. I have found the people of Northern Spain to be very friendly indeed. Be careful wild camping as it is not allowed simply because I think the Spanish are so worried about forest fires. I have done it, arrive late leave early and deep in the middle of nowhere, but have not cooked as I believe the penalties if you unfortunately start a fire can be severe. You only have to look at the huge fires that burned much of Gran Canaria a few months ago.
by Ivor Tingting
26 Oct 2019, 4:40pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior
Replies: 109
Views: 11132

Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

PH wrote:
Carlton green wrote:for the money involved I expect such things to be bullet proof and to survive very high mileages.

That is the experience of all but a very small number of owners.
My first Rohloff hub is coming up to 100,000 miles over 16 years (87,000 recorded and a conservative estimate of 10,000 unrecorded). In that time I've broken two flanges (One of which may have been aggravated by changing wheel size, which isn't recommended on any hub), neither left the bike unrideable and both were replaced FOC, it's also begun leaking oil, which requires it to be sent away for a fix, though it isn't expensive. Other than that it's been faultless, simple oil change when required, cable replacement less frequently than on a derailleur, sprocket not left so long that it seizes, chain kept at a tension where it doesn't fall off, two worn out shifters, replace or reverse chainring and sprocket when required, recent conversion to splined sprocket, conversion to disc brake and that's it. A fraction of the time, effort and expense needed to keep a derailleur system working as well.
I've also had three Shimano hubs, Nexus 4, Nexus 8 and currently Alfine 8. The 4 was a bit of a pain, the Nexus 8 was was fine once I'd abandoned Shimano's idea of lubrication, and I like the Alfine 8. The comparison between any of those and the Rohloff makes no sense to me, they're different products that offer different things and you'd rightly have different expectations.
meandros seems to have a gripe with Rohloff, yet hasn't produced any real evidence, it's easy to say that X component is inferior and they might be right, so lets see the failures. Lets see some users experiences that back it up, the "myths" around it's reliability don't come from the manufacturer (Though they certainly milk it) they come from those using it. I've seen no myth busting in this thread.


++1. I hope to have ridden 100k trouble free Rohloff miles in a few years time. Of the Alfine hubs it is my belief that the 8spd is the more robust of the two hubs more than the 11spd which I have the impression is more "fragile" but I'll leave the technical explanation to Brucey as I am only going from anecdotal accounts. A year or so ago I was considering getting an Alfine 8spd bike with belt drive just as a town bike (N+1 syndrome), but didn't in the end, not because of the Alfine hub more because of other bike features that didn't suit me and I couldn't really justify it and I didn't need it. Instead I bought another Rohloff hub built into a different size wheel which has more or less solved the issue I had sort to tackle.

Re the OP I find it bizarre he is basing his claims against Rohloff from one of their hubs circa 2003 which he bought second hand in the small ads so to me that would straight away raises questions of provenance and certainly whether it had been maintained correctly or looked after during it's life which being manufactured in 2003 has been quite long, 17 years. He does seem to have a chip on his shoulder about Rohloff. I could understand if he's actually bought one of their hubs NEW. His idea of conspiracy theories against giving information to Rohloff such as the serial number of the hub is bonkers. Ok it might have been stolen years ago, but buying second hand without first checking with Rohloff seems a bit remiss. I would have checked as both my hubs are registered with them and if my bikes or the hubs were cut out of the wheel I would inform Rohloff that they had been stolen. So obvious numbering of their hubs with a serial number clearly stamped on the hub is a GOOD thing imho. Perhaps he should dismantle a much newer hub? Was he comparing the Rohloff hub with Shimano Alfine or Nexus hubs of the same vintage i.e. 17 years old? Were they even in existence then? I don't know. My Rohloff has a splined rear sprocket. I believe Rohloff changed from a threaded screw sprocket some years ago. I don't know when perhaps some one with more knowledge and experience such as PH or Brucey will know. I am very happy with mine. I realise I am fortunate to be able to afford not one but two Rohloff hubs. However my first one I really scrimped and saved for. Not everyone is able to do this not justify the purchase. I realise we all have different budgets, commitments and priorities in our lives. But for me buying Rohloff has been money well spent for so many reasons not least the much reduced time I now have to spend maintaining my bike compared to a derailleur geared bike which was a chore. I now have much more time to ride it and doing other things which I hasten to add should be the same for other hub geared bikes as well vs derailleur transmission bikes.
by Ivor Tingting
26 Oct 2019, 3:58pm
Forum: Helmets & helmet discussion
Topic: Helmets in Spain
Replies: 56
Views: 9366

Re: Helmets in Spain

molly wrote:This is a comment not a judgement as I do believe people should have a choice on whether to wear a helmet or not however I have to speak up for wearing helmets because of personal experience. My helmet has prevented me having serious head injury on two occasions and almost certainly saved my life on another. The most serious incident did not involve traffic either just a dog on a badly managed extending lead!
I have been cycling in Spain several times a year for at least 10 years now and always wear a helmet. The helmet I wear is so light and airy that I hardly know I have it on. It is the same make and model that I had on when involved in the worst accident. Admittedly it was badly damaged but I have great faith in the brand(.. and before anyone asks it was a catlike whisper)


Surprised this comment has not been removed by the forum censors for being pro helmet and not according with the general anti helmet brigade on this thread. Twice now I have commented on this thread in support of wearing a helmet which makes this thread irrelevant but each attempt my comment has subsequently been REMOVED. Nasty. Third time lucky. I suspect the Spanish paramedics are no different to Uk ones who when they arrive to help you when you are lying injured in the road, the first thing they are ask is "Have you hit your head? Good to see you wearing a helmet!" I know, as twice it has happened to me and on both occasions I was asked this and a helmet saved my head from injury. When I have toured in the Picos Northern Spain I have always worn a helmet and experienced no problems.
by Ivor Tingting
25 Oct 2019, 12:49pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior
Replies: 109
Views: 11132

Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

My first Rohloff hub has been functioning faultlessly for just over 25k miles now. Because of this I bought a second hub for another set of wheels which is every bit as good. I question whether the OP is actually the original or first owner of the hub(s) he claims to have dismantled, for if he was then he need only contact Rohloff for them to service it and diagnose the reason for it's alleged failure whether user inflicted or a genuine component failure.

I think the OP is either a disgruntled former Rohloff employee or works for Shimano.

From my limited knowledge and research Shimano IGH owners report more problems than Rohloff hub owners. If a Rohloff hub were to fail during a long tour, unlikely, then Rohloff support and service is apparently first class, not that I have ever had to use it, but in contrast I suspect Mr Shimano would say tuff, time to buy another hub with all the problems that would entail where ever you have been stranded. For this reason many RTW cycle tourists who can afford a Rohloff hub choose them, some don't, but many do for good reason. I have never come across a long distance or RTW cyclist riding a bike with a Shimano Alfine or Nexus hub. Not saying no one has, but I have never come across or heard of one.
by Ivor Tingting
14 Oct 2019, 1:39am
Forum: Cycle Camping sub-forum
Topic: Recommend me a tent for a world tour
Replies: 78
Views: 5824

Re: Recommend me a tent for a world tour

pjclinch wrote:
robing wrote:But with the Hubba Hubba, can't you pitch the fly only? Fast and Light I think they call it.


But if you do then you can't (sensibly, at least) put up the inner, and you can't dismount the inner as a first thing when taking it down.

It's better than not having the option, but I'd sooner have a dismounting inner.

Pete.


Errr ......... yes you can. You seem to have totally misunderstood how the Hubba series and similar tents in the MSR range work. If you have tried to pitch the flysheet of say a Hubba Hubba without the dedicated MSR footprint for this tent using DIY lines then this shows you don't understand how the tent works. It is not just a footprint to protect the floor of the inner but a means of correctly anchoring the poles in set positions so you can put up the flysheet first and then hang the inner or use the fly on it's own, or if when raining taking down the inner then fly. They can then be packed separately and the inner stays dry.
by Ivor Tingting
12 Oct 2019, 1:35pm
Forum: Cycle Camping sub-forum
Topic: Recommend me a tent for a world tour
Replies: 78
Views: 5824

Re: Recommend me a tent for a world tour

Psamathe wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Not easy. I didn't have preset lengths of line to keep the corners in. Then hanging the inner on the cross pole becomes a fiddle (discovered that after it broke and I was having to bodge things together to avoid sleeping outdoors).

Reality is that with my MSR the inner getting wet during being pitches was not a major problem and even pitching fly 1st would not be an answer because the seams on the fly leaked (and we are talking about in the rain).

I'm sure if you setup it might be possible but I found a pitch together (as per my Hilleberg) much faster and easier and the same problems does not arise.

Ian


So you didn't buy the footprint? Face palm. The foot print is not only necessary to add an additional layer to protect the groundsheet, but without it you cannot pitch the fly sheet on it's own or as you have found it is VERY difficult. Why did you not but the footprint? You paid way more for a Hilleberg but skimped on buying what you needed for your MSR tent to pitch it properly. For me pitching in the rain is not a regular occurrence but when it happens it's not a problem. I'll grant you MSR has some leakage issues primarily with the fly sheet of their Hubba Tour series tents, the one with the large porch incorporated into the fly, but I've not had any problems with my Hubba Hubba HP, Hubba NX or Elixir 2. I must have been lucky.

I didn't buy the footprint as I didn't want to carry the extra weight. I could pitch it properly without the footprint, and most people were saying inner first in the rain was not a big deal. I would not call it a "big deal" but I would call it "a nuisance" (but that gets to discussing the meaning of words).

Footprint was not going to stop the MSR poles breaking and that was what led to paying way more for the Hilleberg.

I got the Hilleberg once the MSR had broken. Once the MSR broke my choice was either replacement pole sections for the broken pole MSR (which would undoubtedly have gone the same way after a few weeks and other side was on its way to breaking) or I got a different tent. Given I was mid tour at the time I wanted something reliable so where pre-departure I could not justify the expense of the Hilleberg, my experiences with the failed MSR made that justification change.

I didn't get a footprint for the Hilleberg but I might. I keep thinking about it and putting it off. I suspect it will be put-off until close to next departure.

Ian


Ehh??? The footprint is not exactly heavy not does it have a large packed size. In fact I blame MSR for not including it in their Hubba range. It is a bit tight of them meaning those who buy the tents who are tight won't buy them. It is also gives a false impression of the total weight of the tent with an important component missing. Their Elixir tents have the footprint included. Without the footprint you are not able to use the design to it's full potential.
Regarding broken poles etc. It was illuminating working in the out door industry a few years ago to see how poorly most people treated their tent's pole sets - chucking the poles around, trying to snap them together my flipping the whole lot out like a magic wand, stepping on them, when pole sections were together and they were bending them to erect the tent bending the pole sections in totally the wrong places causing all sorts of stresses on joints that were not intended. Not suggesting your poles or joints joining them broke through mistreatment but I saw many people breaking tent poles because they were simply clueless. Touchwood I've never had a broken pole. I'm really careful with tent poles. I carry several repair sections just in case, but never had to use them. I also peg a tent out properly if either strong wind or rain or both is forecast.
by Ivor Tingting
12 Oct 2019, 1:11pm
Forum: Cycle Camping sub-forum
Topic: Recommend me a tent for a world tour
Replies: 78
Views: 5824

Re: Recommend me a tent for a world tour

Psamathe wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote:
Psamathe wrote:My month with the Hubba Hubba required a few pitches in the rain. I'd got used to pitching so was pretty quick but the inner still got wet (made worse as the seams leaked after pitching as the rain continued.

Ian


If it's raining pitch the fly first and then the inner.

Not easy. I didn't have preset lengths of line to keep the corners in. Then hanging the inner on the cross pole becomes a fiddle (discovered that after it broke and I was having to bodge things together to avoid sleeping outdoors).

Reality is that with my MSR the inner getting wet during being pitches was not a major problem and even pitching fly 1st would not be an answer because the seams on the fly leaked (and we are talking about in the rain).

I'm sure if you setup it might be possible but I found a pitch together (as per my Hilleberg) much faster and easier and the same problems does not arise.

Ian


So you didn't buy the footprint? Face palm. The foot print is not only necessary to add an additional layer to protect the groundsheet, but without it you cannot pitch the fly sheet firstly if it's raining or secondly on it's own as just a tarp or you can, but it is rather difficult with DIY lines as you have found. I've not tried. LoL. Why did you not but the footprint? They are £30-40. Once the fly is up it is easy to hang the inner from the inside. You paid way more for a Hilleberg but skimped on buying what you needed for your MSR tent to pitch it properly. For me pitching in the rain is not a regular occurrence but when it happens it's not a problem. I'll grant you MSR has some leakage issues primarily with the fly sheet of their Hubba Tour series tents, the one with the large porch incorporated into the fly, but I've not had any problems with my Hubba Hubba HP, Hubba NX or Elixir 2. I must have been lucky.

Hillebergs are not perfect tents. First the prices of them are astronomical compared even to other premium brands. Their fly sheets can suffer sagging and need frequent re-pegging. Also ventilation can be very poor and lots of condensation. But the main thing which attracted me to MSR was the free standing design and in warmer and drier times of year being able to camp out with just the inner and gaze at the stars and moon as you drift off to sleep. AFAIK you cannot do this with HIlleberg tents. Each to their own.
by Ivor Tingting
11 Oct 2019, 6:17pm
Forum: Cycle Camping sub-forum
Topic: Recommend me a tent for a world tour
Replies: 78
Views: 5824

Re: Recommend me a tent for a world tour

Psamathe wrote:
pjclinch wrote:
Ant... wrote:Whatever you get just make sure that its not one where you put the inner up first like my Robens Lodge 2, as if its raining it fills the inside before you can get the outer in position.


I don't personally like inner-first pitches but the number of happy users, including in rainy places, suggests it's not the deal breaker it might be......

My month with the Hubba Hubba required a few pitches in the rain. I'd got used to pitching so was pretty quick but the inner still got wet (made worse as the seams leaked after pitching as the rain continued.

Ian


If it's raining pitch the fly first and then the inner.