Cycling UK Forum

+1 ( as geomannie says)

I asked a similar question on this forum some time ago. The shimano type free hub has pawls enclosed within the freehub....which muffles the sound. The type of freehub you have is presumably the type where the pawls are in more direct contact with the hub/ wheel which tends to amplify the sound.

You can use grease on pawls, but only if it's fluid enough not to gum up the springs. I use landrover swivel semi-fluid grease instead of oil on my Missus's noisy Mavic wheels' freehub. It's tomato ketchupy consistency. It does deaden the sound somewhat.....and has not caused problems with function

Spares always an issue with old hubs, so sounds a good solution for you.

(Worth checking if the KB5 gear ring is Non-NIG....as the Non-NIG's more robust)

MMak wrote: ↑8 Mar 2024, 11:53pm The spindle spring captured above the key gets compressed and misaligned with the key hole.

My recollection is that I ended up holding the LH part of the indicator in place ...but not fully in, but through the key and I think the RH springs' ferrule, before I put the grub screw in. I carried on holding the LH part in that position and then, when the grub screw was in, carefully pushed in and turned the RH part of the indicator until I could feel the threads had engaged. Having the springs tensioned seemed to be part of the difficulty I was having.

If you do end up trying to 're-rig' AW style you won't have the benefit of the line on the indicator for setting the gears. 1935 seems to be the year they changed from No Intermediate Gear (NIG) to non- NIG, so yours may be either. If it is NIG you probably need to be more careful setting gears ( perhaps by marking alignments on the chain or indicator with the RH nut). I believe the clutches are relatively brittle and were more prone to chipping in the NIG arrangement. You can check which type you have by measuring the length of the gear ring dogs.....see attached which is from a document on K series hubs on the Hadland site:

MMak wrote: ↑8 Mar 2024, 11:53pm I was gutted.

I can imagine.

If a new indicator can't be found, it may be possible to 're-rig' like an AW hub.......by removing (and keeping safely) the springs, RH springs' ferrule and retaining grub screw, from the axle and replacing the axle key with an AW key (ends filed down so flush with clutch carrier). I think an AW indicator will then fit. If so add an AW spring. The lock nut over the clutch has a somewhat rounded top.....so there might be some risk of the spring end splaying? ...so I'm thinking put a spring cover on both ends of the spring.

(Post war AW springs are not as strong as those in a K series and can be used with the trigger shifters as well as the quadrant and barrel shifter)

I don't know this will work....but worth a try if you have to wait a while to find a replacement indicator....

Good luck....and talk to/ whatsapp Vince at Colwood...as he will know.

Could try asking Colwood Wheels.
https://colwoodwheelworks.co.uk/

Just about possible Vince may have some.....or can advise if any other can be made to work.

(I'm no expert....but I'm wondering if the problem was the axle key had rotated. When putting my K hub back together I recall the key kept rotating a little as the next bits went on and right hand spring was tensioned by screwing in the axle grub screw......... had about 4 attempts before the hole lined up......once the RH axle spring is in and tensioned the axle key is held pretty firmly in whatever rotation it is in......... as you know you need to be careful with this type of indicator and if the key hole is out of line...... well these thin indicators don't have much lateral strength)

Brucey wrote: ↑4 Mar 2024, 3:22pm
............ I have seen an example of K505 before, and I don't think it had those ramps. so maybe they changed it. K505 (and the associated wide-flanged sleeve) lasted until 1951, then K505A was introduced. K505A was another 'machined from solid' part, but had a smaller counterbore on the underside, to match a revised axle sleeve. In 1965 HSA117 was introduced, being a more cheaply made (but arguably stronger) pressed steel part. It has no counterbore and will therefore happily work with either sleeve.

I had read as you say above, and the only previous ref to an AW ramped clutch was yours ( up thread). However Colwood says that from 1937 to the end of the war ( I believe actually 1943 as they stopped production) that the hubs had what Colwood describe as ' prototype parts'. So the AW K505 clutch (unramped) with the wide rimmed clutch sleeve K503.....are not the 1st type....despite wot the Internet finds.

Spacers from a dead cassette can be used.

( If/where needed plastic spacers can be reduced in width by sanding on a flat surface)

Brucey wrote: ↑2 Mar 2024, 7:04pm when there was talk of a 'ramped clutch' I expected to see something like this;



which is a 'K' series clutch. In the context of the AW clutch, does the description 'ramped' refer to the underside of the counterbore for the axle sleeve?

I think the clutch pictures I attached up thread are ramped essentially as the K series hub clutch is...except the K type clutch is only ramped on the top. I am relying on Colwood that this is the original ramped AW clutch.

The link below has a 1939 sales catalogue. Pg 26 has an exploded diagram with the original clutch and carrier....

http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/i ... -57.26.jpg

Old style AW inners definitely compatible with SRF3 shell.

Not so sure/need to check on BWR inners in SRF3 shell. Definitely the BWR shell is narrower/ slightly different& AW inners won't go in BWR shell.

I've not got around to this, but the Shimano bell crank can be drilled out and then re- threaded using a sacrificial AW axle as the tap to cut the right thread. To make the tap you need to cut/angle grind a groove on either side of the sacrificial axle....for the swarf.

If you google FW 5 speed conversion or the like.....you'll find stuff. Also see Facebook sa group.

On Brucey's approach........I had wondered if a v-brake noodle could be used to guide a bare cable through the drop-out .......you could drill the bent nail.....but would need an eye of some sort to secure cable end

W = Worksop Carlton ( but Nottingham after 1981)
L= Edit: actually August.....not Dec as one might think.
7 = 1987 ....or 1977
000081 = 81st frame built that month

I think. See link to check

https://www.google.com/amp/s/dentoncycl ... ision/amp/

( ah....perfect topic for a retrogrouch......silver 90's shimano kit .........the Zenith.......Carbon is non-recycleable evil and black kit is just dull with potential to look more rubbish when scratched......21st century is very disappointing so far)

rjb wrote: ↑16 Feb 2024, 11:34am Here's Hadlands take on the twin start thread.
"Sturmey’s right-hand ball rings: are you losing the thread? – HADLAND'S BLOG" https://hadland.wordpress.com/2015/02/2 ... he-thread/

and if you scroll down on that page there's a comment from someone called Bruce ( Sounds familiar?) which includes the comment:

"New parts are manufactured and assembled as if they are perfect but the threads in the hubshell are permanently deformed the first time they are fully tightened and the hub is ridden on."

.....which seems consistent with Brucey's comment up thread. ( So Brucey is not alone on this)

I have to say I found Hadland's reasoning difficult to accept when I first came across it a few years back...and still do.

Perhaps we can set up a "thread-off" to argue it out with Hadland in the blue corner .....and....err.....Brucey and Bruce in the red? ....or would that give red an unfair advantage? Anyway I'd get a ticket.

I think Hadland's response to Bruce of " many thanks for those very interesting comments" is......!!!....quite frankly asking for it.