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by tim-b
1 Oct 2024, 4:15pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Steel was real
Replies: 26
Views: 2076

Re: Steel was real

pwa wrote: 1 Oct 2024, 3:39pm
tim-b wrote: 1 Oct 2024, 3:00pm ....The closure is because Port Talbot had passed its sell-by date, needed replacing and had cost £4bn since 2007 just to keep it open
Just on that one point, the last blast furnace was only constructed about 11 years ago, for £185m, and it had about half its life expectancy still to go. Tax payer money went into making that furnace.
£185mn in 2013, I dunno, £245mn at today's prices?
Port Talbot was reportedly incurring losses of £1mn per day, you cannot sustain that "sunk cost fallacy".

I can't find a life expectancy for the rebuilding of Blast Furnace 4 at Port Talbot from 2013, just generic "a significant long-term investment" type comments
by tim-b
1 Oct 2024, 3:19pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Steel was real
Replies: 26
Views: 2076

Re: Steel was real

Libert Steel is a good example of what can be achieved, but even they've had financial problems, partly due to the high cost of energy for the UK's steel industry as compared to Europe https://libertysteelgroup.com/uk/about-us/
The UK generates 10 million tonnes of scrap steel each year, 80% of which is exported. Recycled domestically, this scrap could satisfy much of the country’s demand for 15 million tonnes of fresh steel annually. https://libertysteelgroup.com/uk/greensteel/
Liberty Steel has an electric arc furnace at its Rotherham mill, as will Port Talbot, leading to fewer scrap steel exports, little coal and fewer steel imports; all pretty good for the planet
by tim-b
1 Oct 2024, 3:00pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Steel was real
Replies: 26
Views: 2076

Re: Steel was real

Biospace wrote: 1 Oct 2024, 1:54pm Our electricity which was once produced by burning coal has been replaced by renewable energy from solar and wind power, whereas steel will now be brought in from abroad. Stopping burning coal to power our Grid makes sense for our air quality, whereas off-shoring production likely increases emissions. I'm not sure how you see this as a win for the climate.
It's a win for the UK's contribution to the climate and to the health of local people, other countries have responsibilities too.

There are 11 current Air Quality Management Areas in Wales, all contiguous and in the south. Nitrogen dioxide (NO2) is the reason for 10 of those areas, and only one, Neath Port Talbot, is designated for Particulate Matter (PM10).
Granted, it's more complex than, "It's the steelworks", but that's a massive contributor and directly affects people's health. You also have to consider that coke production is no longer needed for Port Talbot.

Port Talbot is also the UK’s largest single source of carbon emissions, contributing 1.5% to national emissions. If you include Ratcliffe Power Station (now closed), Scunthorpe steelworks and the Grangemouth oil refinery then they totalled 4.5% of national carbon emissions in 2022
While Germany has invested billions in green hydrogen which will replace coal in steel making, the UK is led on its merry way to becoming a cloudier, colder version of the Cayman Islands.
What we're really talking about here is a just social contract with climate issues as a by-product. Our politicians letting us down yet again with little thought for an industrial strategy. We still have to implement a solution for Scunthorpe https://justtransitionfinance.org/publi ... ransition/
From the BBC article linked in the OP,
  • "Greenpeace UK has branded the decision to shut them down "tragic".

    "We should be absolutely clear that those blast furnaces closed because of a lack of strategy from Tata and from the government," says Paul Morozzo, senior climate campaigner at Greenpeace.

    "They weren't closed because of carbon emissions."
The closure is because Port Talbot had passed its sell-by date, needed replacing and had cost £4bn since 2007 just to keep it open
by tim-b
1 Oct 2024, 7:44am
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Steel was real
Replies: 26
Views: 2076

Re: Steel was real

Another nail in the coffin of British manufacturing industry 😪. Another victim of a system of Parliamentary governance that might know the price of something but has no idea what its value is.
I can't agree with you there.
Had the industry been allowed to continue as was then 8000 jobs would have gone, plus supporting industries.

Manufacturing in this country has been in the doldrums since the 2008 financial crash, how many billion £ has been lost supporting the plant since then?

The new furnace will keep thousands of jobs plus supporting industries going while saving the unnecessary movements of scrap steel out of the UK and coal coming in. It's a win for the climate too

In a similar way to Ratcliffe Power Station that closed for production today (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgn4gg5y2yo), the plant would have needed replacement anyway
by tim-b
30 Sep 2024, 8:01am
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: How to remove rust inside steel frame tubes?
Replies: 23
Views: 1352

Re: How to remove rust inside steel frame tubes?

Something like Fe123 https://www.rust.co.uk/product/fe-123-rust-converter/ or ACF50 https://acf50.co.uk/
It’s important to note that adhesion within the cavity is not crucial, so applying a generous amount of the converter is recommended. However, Fe-123 contains heavy zinc phosphate solids, which can be challenging to atomize during cavity injection.
by tim-b
29 Sep 2024, 10:10pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Tha new nasty party ? "Starmer's Labour cares more about greed and power "...
Replies: 207
Views: 8365

Re: Tha new nasty party ? "Starmer's Labour cares more about greed and power "...

It was estimated in April 2024 that only 60% of people who would qualify for pension credits claim them https://www.independentage.org/pension-credit

That figure needed addressing to avoid the WFP saga being seen as a cynical raid on the vulnerable
by tim-b
29 Sep 2024, 9:22am
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Tha new nasty party ? "Starmer's Labour cares more about greed and power "...
Replies: 207
Views: 8365

Re: Tha new nasty party ?

How many former-Labour, now Independents, do we have in Parliament?
I think that there are six now with Jeremy Corbyn, Shockat Adam, Ayoub Khan, Adnan Hussain, and Iqbal Mohamed.

The six outnumber Reform UK and Green Party MPs, that's some going Sir Kier!
by tim-b
29 Sep 2024, 8:52am
Forum: Health and fitness
Topic: I am going downhill when I want to go uphill! More GPX woes lol...
Replies: 2
Views: 3341

Re: I am going downhill when I want to go uphill! More GPX woes lol...

9.98 miles. The bit through Stafford would be hard in a straight line :)
by tim-b
29 Sep 2024, 8:45am
Forum: Does anyone know … ?
Topic: Ongoing Bottom Bracket Issue with Trek Checkpoint Gravel Bike
Replies: 34
Views: 2581

Re: Ongoing Bottom Bracket Issue with Trek Checkpoint Gravel Bike

Bicycles are notorious for clicks and squeaks that seem to come from an area but are actually from several feet away. Don't be surprised if they can't find anything in the workshop.

I've had noise from the saddle sound like a pedal fault complicated by my movement in the saddle coinciding with a pedal downstroke. Standing up while pedalling sorted that one
by tim-b
27 Sep 2024, 11:18am
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: UK Politics
Replies: 3267
Views: 205069

Re: UK Politics

The manifesto is falling apart, who'd have guessed that if you tax non-doms more then they'll leave the UK and won't pay any UK taxes?

Common sense surely, but extra hospital and dental appointments and school breakfast clubs now need funding from elsewhere
Treasury officials acknowledge that scrapping two concessions made by the previous government might not raise the £1bn they thought it would, or indeed any money at all.
The £1bn is earmarked in the Labour manifesto for extra hospital and dental appointments and school breakfast clubs.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04pe3653k7o
by tim-b
26 Sep 2024, 1:59pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: New to the forum, need advice - crack in paint/carbon frame
Replies: 15
Views: 967

Re: New to the forum, need advice - crack in paint/carbon frame

I guess the point is that the structural stability of carbon fibre is tricky to assess.
Titan was the first deep-sea submersible pressure hull made with CF, normally they'd be made with steel, aluminium or titanium.
There isn't the practical experience and understanding of CF under repeated deep sea pressure conditions and the associated testing regimes

By contrast, goodness knows how many bicycle frames and other components have been made with CF (and steel, aluminium or titanium).
by tim-b
26 Sep 2024, 8:17am
Forum: On the road
Topic: WR in Nepal
Replies: 2
Views: 3385

WR in Nepal

Neil Laughton has completed his bid to set a new record for the world's highest cycle ride. He rode a Brompton and Sirdar Nima Kanchha Sherpa, rode a Cube mountain bike, well you would ride a MTB on a 24000' peak :)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0lwzk33px0o
by tim-b
26 Sep 2024, 8:10am
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Tha new nasty party ? "Starmer's Labour cares more about greed and power "...
Replies: 207
Views: 8365

Re: Tha new nasty party ?

The unions at the Labour Party Conference in Liverpool won their (non-binding) vote against the proposed method of determining winter fuel allowance payment https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdd4ejq32pdo

Strangely, the agenda for conference was changed moving the vote from the day of Rachel Reeves speech to the final day when many attendees had left. How convenient
by tim-b
26 Sep 2024, 7:57am
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: New to the forum, need advice - crack in paint/carbon frame
Replies: 15
Views: 967

Re: New to the forum, need advice - crack in paint/carbon frame

Was just wondering if anyone on the forum had used the coin tap scenario, and was later proven wrong
There's a reason that Airbus engineers don't go around tapping their aircraft with a coin :)

This Australian is an expert and has a Youtube channel of CF testing and repair. This example is why you shouldn't rely on a visual inspection alone https://carbonbikerepair.com.au/article ... scan-video
He's not a video editing expert, so stick with it
by tim-b
25 Sep 2024, 10:00am
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: The future of the UK EU relationship
Replies: 1105
Views: 905637

Re: Are you "Infected by a remainer mind virus"?

Europe has been weakened by difficult UK-EU relations at a time of international challenge. Eight years after the Brexit referendum a new UK government and European Commission provides a good opportunity to reset approaches and put obstructions aside. Too big for either side to ignore, this will always be an important, time-consuming, and slightly chaotic relationship – which thus needs a much firmer footing based on the following shared understanding:
Full report (preceded by a summary) from The European Centre for International Political Economy, an independent and non-profit policy research think tank. https://ecipe.org/publications/negotiat ... relations/