Cycling UK Forum

CJ wrote:Thanks for a very informative reply Andrew. I hadn't realised that the more sophisticated "outdoor" style GPS units could also work like a motoring "satnav".

I often hear of cyclists using Tom Tom or the like to plan cycing routes, but wonder what sort of cycling routes they get. I guess that the kind of cyclist who is happy with these routes will be a confirmed roadie, who wouldn't use a cycletrack even if it was going his way and tolerates the traffic on main roads in preference to the often inferior surfaces of minor roads. I guess that I, as one who delights in exploring the least trafficked backroads and byways, would not be as happy with these routes, but I don't really know.

Can anyone who uses satnav tell us as to what sort of cycle route they actually get, and what they do to get it? Presuamably you can say "no motorways", but can you also limit trunk and A-road usage? And having said "no motorways", would a route from Bristol to Chepstow involve a 60-mile detour via Gloucester, because the software doesn't know there is a bikepath over the Severn bridge? Presumably the resulting route also takes no account of hills - or does it?

Tom-Tom says it has a "bike" mode, but what does it do? Do they mean motorbike? Or does it mean they have added cycle tracks to their roads database, if not in the UK then perhaps in the Netherlands at least?

As far as I can make out, the "bike" mode will just mean that any planned routes will avoid using motorways and any other roads that have bike bans. As far as I know, TomTom, Garmin etc all source their road mapping data from Navteq, and will have much the same limitations. One also shouldn't place too much reliance in the quality of bike-related data.
Using it in bike mode in a car, it tried to direct me off the M5 at every junction until I changed it at the services. It plans a route up through Gloucester rather than over the Severn Bridge. Navigating through central Bruges, it obeyed all the car one-way streets, although many/most of them allow 2-way passage for bikes and mopeds.
Calculated routes also ignore hills, the mapping data doesn't have much in the way of tracks or cycle lanes.
When routing over the Severn Bridge, I just put a waypoint each side of the bridge and ignored the instructions to go off up the A48. I believe that putting a waypoint in the middle of the bridge will work too.

The routing options are:
. Mode = Car/bike/Truck/Pedestrian etc
. Avoid = U-turns/Toll Roads/Highways/Unpaved Roads/Carpool Lanes
I haven't worked out exactly what it means by "Highways" yet. It certainly includes motorways and major A-roads. The trouble with setting it to avoid them is that it will put in a 10-mile detour to avoid 200m of A40.

I generally leave mine in car mode, and just avoid U-turns. When navigating, I set it to just use the shortest distance between waypoints, and use my skill and judgement to position the waypoints so the route goes where I want it to go. Planning the route overall, I do myself on a large-scale map.
Avoiding U-turns means that if you go off-route, or conciously vary the route, if just comes up with a new route to the next waypoint rather than nagging you to turn round.

I generally find that you only need one waypoint every 8-10 miles or so, and that having so few waypoints means that it is practical to enter the route directly on the GPS (rather than via a PC). This allows you to change the route during a ride, or plan the return leg at lunchtime. It's also handy on holiday without a PC, as you can enter the day's route during breakfast.

Using the routefinding without having planned any sort of route isn't something I've done much of. I usually only use it for directing me to destinations in unfamiliar towns, and will often not ask to be navigated until I reach the edge of town.

Tracklogs/MemoryMap/Fugawi/Anquet are OS mapping on your PC, used for planning and reviewing routes.

Non-mapping GPS units (edge 205/305, geko, basic eTrex etc), are good for following a prepared route, and recording where you've been, but are not much good if you get off-route (eg road closure).

Mapping GPS units (eTrex Legend Cx, GPSMap60Cx etc) will record where you've been, follow prepared routes, display a basic on-screen road map, and will navigate you to places like a car satnav.
To get the full benefit, you have to pay extra for the mapping data to load onto them, though this could be offset against the fact that the Tracklogs etc OS mapping could be dispensed with as the GPS map data can also be used on the PC for planning (looks and functions similar to MS Autoroute).

What I don't like about the Edge series is that they have built in rechargable batteries, which means no rides over about 8 hours, and no use on holiday unless you can guarantee secure access to a mains socket every night (ie not camping or youth hostels). They are very good for recording ride data, but as a navigation tool they are amonst the worst.

chrisgeller wrote:The Garmin devices look really interesting.

I wonder if you could tell me more about how to get the routes on in the first place. For example, I cycled up to Cambridge at the weekend, and ended up using TomTom on my phone to identify small B and C roads. Do these products come with complete UK maps where I can set up the route first like this, and then the device can direct me? How does it do if you move off route? I also can't understand how the screen can tell you what direction to take...

If you have a non-mapping GPS, you get an on-screen arrow that points the way you should be going, so if you get to a junction and the arrow is pointing left, you go left. If you are navigating a route (rather than a track), you also get a distance to the next junction and a warning beep when you get close. If you get off route, you just get the "you are here" pointer and trail moving away from the route into blank nothingness.

Mapping GPS can work as above, but with the appropriate map data, will give 2-line text instructions at the top of the screen (eg "in 250m turn left on Bath Road"), together with a zoomed in plan of the junction layout and arrows showing where you should be going. If you get off route, it will invent a new route from where you are to where you are going, and direct you along that instead. If you haven't disallowed U-turns in the setup, this often just means it tells you to turn round and go back.

The Garmin units I've seen come with very basic map data only (fairly crude M, A and B roads only) so you have to buy map data to make them useful. There are 2 levels of data available - full routing (as above), or basic (detailed on-screen roads, but no navigation text or route-finding).
It may be that some other brands (Lowrance?) come with better built-in maps than the basic Garmin.

emergence wrote:i recently bought a Blackburn low-rider front rack - the sort for bikes that don't have mountings half-way up the forks - and at the same time ordered Carradice super whatsit panniers - through CTC's mail-order shop. ALAS THERE IS AN ISSUE!!! The racks have a plate at the top instead of the usual bar, and the pannier's mountings have the usual hooky 'finger' that sits on the top, and then an hooky 'thumb' that clips around the bar from below to stop it jumping off.

The cure is to make holes in the plate for the "thumbs" to go through.

As to why it's like that - it's because when the rack was designed, all panniers had plain hooks, with a strap or elastic attaching to the bottom of the rack to try and prevent the panniers bouncing off.

JohnW wrote:r
Incidentally, isn't 120mm up to 135mm a bit far to cold set? Any framebuilders or technical chaps out there to answer that?
JohnW

Given that 531 fork blades came from Reynolds straight and were bent to the required rake by the framebuilder, I don't see 120 to 135 as a problem provided that everything is still sound. It's far enough that the dropouts should be aligned afterwards though.

It's quite a common query on fora, where someone's taken a fancy to ride the Raid Pyreneen or somesuch, and is asking about lower gears as they are a bit worried about riding up the Tourmalet having already ridden the Marie Blanque and the Aubisque/Soulor that day.
If you are on compact double, there isn't really a great deal that con be done without converting to triple. If you've got a 30/40/50 triple, you just change the little ring for a 24 and put a 29 cassette on, and you've got a gear that's low enough to ride up anything, even if it's an unsupported ride and you are carrying your luggage.

In my view an audax bike or fast touring machine should be suitable for rides like the Raid.

On a similar note, there are often queries from people who've taken a fancy to go to the Alps and ride the big cols, asking how to carry gear without any rack fittings on the frame. Again, it's a problem that's arisen because they went for a pretty bike rather than a functional one

Go for a triple.

Compact double, you can put a 29 cog on, and that's as low as you can go without converting to triple (expensive).
Triple, you can shrink the front down to 24T if need be, as well as the 29 cog.

Riding audax events, at some stage you will end up riding up a steep hill at the end of a lot ride, when you've been tired for quite a while.

I'd follow CR's advice and go 1 1/8" aheadset.
1) Stems for 1 1/8" threaded are rare now, and will only get rarer.
2) Maintainable on tour with just allen keys
3) No problem with the stem getting siezed into the steerer if you should put off the overhaul a bit too long.

There is an argument that on a steel frame, 1 1/8" is overkill, and significantly heavier than 1". However, this is again outdated kit, and will restrict your future options.

Paul Smith SRCC wrote:

Cunobelin wrote:The problem with the front racks is because the Ortleib design has a small rotating insert to the clip which secures the pannier in place.

Some front racks have a plate that stops this happening such as the Blackburn:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-0-Blackburn-FL1-STD-NON-Custom-Low-Rider--to-fit-frames-w-out-bosses--Silver-114.htm

If you have that type of rack you can with a bit of an adapation swap the sides so that the lip of the plate faces inwards and not outward as shown, that way the pannier clips still have something to hook around. Still not ideal it has to be said as the Ortlieb clips are designed to go the whole way around the pannier tube/bar so the others racks that "Cunobelin" mentioned were better.

Paul Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

You can also just make a hole in the plate where the clip wants to go. It means that you can't change your mind on where to put the hooks, but that's a minor problem.

Rapha do plusses in black or brown, but be warned that they aren't cheap

a) broken BB shell/lug, leaving the bottom of the seat tube flapping about uselessly. 35 miles home, on 46x19 fixed
b) Broken gearside rear dropout, allowing the end of the chainstay to flap about uselessly. 3 times, rides home 25, 15 and 10 miles, carefully with the resulting additional rear wheel steering. Do Thorn still give a lifetime guarantee on frames?
c) One broken pedal axle pedal, ride back 1 mile on one leg.
d) 3 disintegrated pedal bearings that allowed to body to fall off the end of the axle. Pedal back mostly one-legged, with a bit of help pushing on the axle, max 30 miles back.
e) nearly broken crank, leaving pedal axle at about 80/100 degrees to crank. Ride back 40 miles trying not to push on the bad pedal.
f) Pulled RH half of handlebars off setting off from traffic lights, controlled and stopped bike using left hand, then walked home

As far as I know KMC chains are OK. They apparently come with a "missing link", much the same as a SRAM powerlink.

Wipperman (Connex) are OK too, and come with yet another version of the powerlink idea, although it fastens in a different way, and has to be put on the right way round or it may cause skipping on 11T or 12T small sprockets.
My LBS says they last better than SRAM.
I've actually got one on the bike, though I haven't added up my mileage to see whether it's lasted better than SRAM did. At least it hasn't lost any rollers like happended to my last SRAM chain. I generally leave the chain and cassette on until it stops working, then do a complete overhaul with new cassette, chainrings as required, cables etc.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Main_Page

It's a project to produce a map of the world that is free of copyright.
Theoretically, anyone who uses an image taken from any published map to show where something is is in breach of copyright, and could be prosecuted. Some folk don't like relying on the fact that nobody ever is, hence the project.
Google Maps is all very well, but it is possible that some of the people who actually produced the mapping data (very little is produced by Google from scratch), could get into some legal dispute and force it to be turned off.

It's basically produced from pooled GPS tracklogs, and a lot of the people doing it are cyclists, so it's quite likely that a lot of the NCN is mapped

Thread a 12mm ring spanner on the 12mm allen key before inserting that into the hub, and turn the ring spanner. Extend with tubing of some sort if more leverage required.
Alternatively, if you have access to a good solid bench vice (bolted to the bench, not just clamped), you could clamp the allen key in the vice, put the wheel on, and then turn the wheel. If 2 people heaving on the rim doesn't shift it, nothing will. Do make sure you are turning it the right way first

How long is your 10 mile commute taking you? An hour? 40 minutes?
Any normal person shouldn't have any problems with dehydration in that sort of time, so all rehydratrion salts or isotonic drinks will achieve is wasting your money. Stick to plain water in your bottle, and it won't get manky so quick.
This does assume that you aren't pretty dehydrated before you start, so check your pee colour and get into the habit of drinking more fluids during the day if it's not pale enough.

The bonk (ie weakness cured by sugary food) may be just that porridge digests fairly slowly and doesn't get into your system soon enough if you start riding immediately after breakfast. In this case try altering your breakfast. When riding, I use Alpen Original muesli, which has a fair amount of sugar in it to get me going first thing, and more slowly digested fruits and grains to keep me going after the sugar has been used up.

Bonking in 10 miles does seem very unusual, regardless of diet, unless you are doing it a very fast speed (like half an hour). It may be worth getting checked up for early signs of diabetes.

reohn2 wrote:It is of no consolation that Rolhoff will repair a failed hub when one is in the back of beyond,at £700 a throw IMO its just not good enough.

There is nothing that can be guaranteed not to fail in the back of beyond, and there are a fair number of failures that would stop you a lot worse than a spoke pulled out of a hub flange.
It could be a broken crank, handlebar, freewheel, wheel rim, bike frame, or even you.



For a number of years, Rohloff said their hubs weren't to be used on tandems. It was only when SJSC sold tandems with them on anyway that Rohloff relented and agreed to fix them if there was a problem.

As for 48 spoke wheels, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were more problems with the flanges than with fewer spokes. You don't build a wheel with slack spokes just because it's got a lot of them, and there are more holes perforating and weakening the hub flange.