Cycling UK Forum

However it's worth remembering it is the season for slippery road hazards; wet leaves, wet man hole covers, mud along roads and field entrances, spilt diesel, banks of grit and mud in corners, ......

• I can unfortunately very much agree with that.

• 8 weeks ago today whilst whizzing down a single track country lane I needed to cross the road's centre - yes I could see the gravel but failed to see the generous mix of hazel nuts/acorns mixed in with it all.

• So yes, like riding on marbles and inevitably the bike and I parted.

• A double fracture of the pelvis - ouch: in fact OUCH OUCH OUCH!

• A week in hospital then progression up through a zimmer frame to the first pedal around the block a week ago and all is going to be back to normal by Xmas, but by heck I'm a much more cautious rider that I was!

May I suggest you post this with some pictures on the pedelecs.co.uk forum where there are many more and well informed ebike users than can be found here.

Store bought properly certified ebikes left in their vanilla state seem to be very safe.

I'd agree with that.

There are many scary stories to be found 'out there' and unless you really look into them to find out what the fire's cause was (and that is something not easily found as detail comes second to headline grabing), it is easy to form quite a glum impression of ebike fires.

Ebike kits if bought from a reputable outlet are, I would say as equally safe as store bought ebikes. Kits being more generic in their makeup are more easily 'fiddled with' and badly made DIY battery packs / or stupidly cheap ones can be used on kits which I would suggest are where the problems begin, to say nothing of cheap chargers for said battery packs.

PS there are many people with adequate and suitable knowledge to safely build and use their own battery packs - the pedelec UK website is a useful source of information in this respect. Disclaimer - I have built and used three ebike battery packs all without issue or fuss and I'm not expecting any either.

Carlton green wrote: ↑12 Nov 2023, 5:33am
Just a point of clarification. Are you saying that when the batteries on a proprietary system die (bike built from new as an e-bike with battery and motor from say Bosch) then you’re pretty much stuffed?

As has been posted above, it seems that Bosch have said they will keep spares for 10 yrs from the date of obsolescence so that's good to hear so providing that as time goes by the availability remains good and the price reasonable that all will be fine.

That generic stand alone battery packs can’t be bolted to the bike and electrically replace proprietary packs?

Many proprietry system have bespoke and complex wiring, connectors and communications going on between the battery and BMS and the motor's controller, such that a simple stand-alone battery pack wouldn't work.

In terms of possibilities to repair would someone be best served by buying - as load matched units - the motor and battery separately? So converting a push bike to an e-bike.

That description sounds like a conversion kit to me? Many (if not all?) conversions kits use standard battery packs so you can mix and match as best suits you.

Bonzo Banana wrote: ↑21 Aug 2023, 10:23am ..............................................
Also most ebike fires seem to have been caused by home made batteries so you need to be careful how you make them.

The careful making of DIY batteries is indeed essential but putting that aside I'd be interested to know how you have come to the above point of view? Whilst I'm not an avid reader of ebike fire stories/reports, I have the general view that ebike fire causes are not closely recorded.

From the scant data that I have come across, I seem to recall that ebike fires caused by incorrect charging are a primary culprit (as in a faulty charger or using the wrong type of charger).

Happy to be corrected, especially by new, upto date information.

1982john wrote: ↑11 Nov 2023, 8:54pm What happens in a few years when the battery has depleted is cycles to the extent the battery charge is not optimal? ....................... Can you get replacements?

> If your ebike is a proprietary system, then the likelyhood of finding a replacement battery a few years down the line, is going to be difficult if not impossible and certainly expensive.
> Battery re-celling of proprietary systems is becoming neigh on impossible with the newer generation batteries (due to the need for specialist software for the battery BMS side of things).
> But ebike kits on the other hand use generic battery systems which do not have the limitations of proprietary ones and unless the market for buying bateries for kits changes (as in some sort of legislation to reduce the risk of fire from poorly builts batteries, or the like), then you'll be fine for many years hence.

deliquium wrote: ↑28 Oct 2023, 6:34pm

Is this true?

Yes

How can the BMS decide which sizes of part recharges are within its parameters to equal ONE full charge? Etc?

I've no particular knowledge of the firmware in Bosch batteries or their associated Controllers, but given that between those two electronic pieces it is very easy to work out how many Watt Hours of energy have been used between charges and knowing this and the fully charged Watt Hours capacity of the battery, it is simple to work out what/when a full charge cycle has been made.

For example a 36v battery of 15Ah capacity has a What Hour capacity of 36 x 15 = 540Wh. So if you had 10 short rides and used 54Wh on each ride and you charged back to full after each ride, then in total that is one full charge cycle.

I'm sure it's a bit more complicated than that, but you get the idea I'm sure.

My own situation is very similar to the Op's with the exception that my current episodes of paroxysmal AF do not lay me low (although I'm guessing that will gradually change for the worse over time).

Personally if I were faced with either cycling with an outside risk of dropping dead vs no cycling, I'd likely opt for the former.

Right now I'm laid up with a double pelvic pubic ramus fracture (had an 'off' a couple of weeks ago) but give it 2-3 months and I'll be back on the pedals - waiting that long is bad enough but the thought of never cycling again fills me with dread hence I'd take the chance with a pacemaker.

On my conversion I have the VLCD6 which I specifically chose for its discreteness as I didn't want anything on my handlebars screaming 'I'm an e-bike, come and steal me'! And of course the larger displays will be in the way if turning the bike upside down to fix a puncture.

I really have no use for the odometer (I use a separate device) and the battery level system is little better than guesswork (and you'll soon learn what range your battery gives you).

The VLCD12 does look a nice display though although Ali Express shows two quite different models for this - the one I liked is in the pic below..

It used to be the case that you could get better money by breaking the bike down for parts but I've no idea if it's like that now?

Tom wrote: ↑13 Oct 2023, 5:15pm I have a electric pedelec cycle,
Has anyone had experience of decent trackers ones that will track on a reasonable distance.
Also I have come across discussion in various forums regards police not being interested in getting involved with cycle tracking?
As some electric cycles can be the cost of a decient second car this should not be an issue.
Tom

Hi Tom,

• I looked into this area myself a year or so back and got something small and discrete, a vodafone Curve which I wouldn't particularly recommend as it's battery life is just a few days

• Yes it did track and was moderately accurate, but say it did take you to a particular part of a street, maybe even a house, it isn't going to be accurate enough to tell where in a house/garage/garden shed it is

• Even if it were more accurate than I've intimated, what then? As you've read for yourself, expecting any police action is in most, if not all Forces, isn't going to happen.

• You will find that some folk have simply knocked on the door and asked for their bike back, a high risk strategy and not for everyone.

• At the end of the day a tracker is the final layer of defence in that the bike has been stolen - many would argue that investing more in preventing the theft in the first place is a better place for your money (but what can beat an angle grinder these days?)

• I no longer bother with the Curve (in fact I'm not sure even where it is!) but instead have adopted a layered approach to theft e.g.
  > Choose where I leave the bike unattended
  > Disguise my bike's obvious 'e-bike ness' (easier to do as I've a kit conversion on and older 'vintage' style bike with no obvious battery stack, no huge handlebar display nor the always on e-bike lights) but of course most branded e-bikes simply scream their genre and 'come and get me' appeal

• I've fitted a simple motion detector/alarm that screams like hell if the bike is touched

• a frame lock - not great but difficult to get tools to and then a 'D' lock if needed

• You can go on and on of course but going back to the original question, a tracker has lost it's appeal for me as ultimately even if you can locate the bike after the theft, what then?

Apologies for the rambling!

As has been said, the biggest single risk is the battery. 7,000 miles usage from a battery is indeed well withing the scope of a reputably made battery providing the battery hasn't been misused in any particular way.

Misuse might be something like allowed to discharge too low (as in stored for many months without charging), or left fully charged for months on end (which has a tendancy to reduce the maximum capacity).

There are other factors too - the only sure way is to find someone who can load test the battery in some way that gives you confidnce in the battery's state of health, or of coursre take a fully charged battery and the bike for a long test ride (and for this you need to know what range to expect for your style of riding) - all a bit of a nightmare really but if the price is keen enough to tempt you with enough in your budget to cover the cost of a replacement battery (check availability), then that's OK.

Then of course proprietary bikes are 'locked in' to manufacturer's repair regimes - kit bikes are more generic and simpler by far to sort out any problems.

Good luck!

Rob D wrote: ↑1 Sep 2023, 4:08pm ........... but a friend of a friend had exactly this, crashed and broke her collar bone. It just aeems a likely problem to me...

So there's maybe the deciding factor (mesh or not mesh) - if you're the sort of rider to panic and loose control at something getting into your helmet, then mesh would seem a very good idea.

If as is more likely the case that a helmet invader causes you to swear and curse whilst coming to a controlled halt, then maybe not bother with the mesh, certainly if you've a nice meshless comfy helmet already (or have found one).

531colin wrote: ↑19 Sep 2023, 3:11pm
I think you have done well.......mine is a TSDZ2 in a steel MTB with a Rohloff, and it weighs about 30 kilos.
Should have paid more attention!

Jeezy wheezy, that is heavy, so maybe brake blocks/rims (or disc pads/rotors) might wear a bit quicker.

I've a Rohloff on the tandem (soon to be electrified) and yes, they are a chunky bit of kit.

Batteries are heavy too especially if you're up into the 14Ah+ range.

My second tsdz2 is on a light ally frame with carbon forks and 25c tyres and my self built 10s2p battery in a soft pack brings the total weight to around 16kg so no excess wear for me.

531colin wrote: ↑18 Sep 2023, 12:40pm At 74 I could do back to back 40 mile rides with 1000 metres climbing.
At 76 I want to use a mid drive E bike just to get back to doing those rides.
So the wear on my brake pads and chain should be similar to what it was when I could do those rides unaided?

Shirley?

I've a TSDZ2 mid drive fitted around 5000 miles ago and I can now do the sort of cycling that was the case before a 'medical episode' a few years ago.

So the battery and motor come in around 6-7 kg but I've lost half that from my waistline.

Have I noticed excess drive train / brake pad wear? No, not that I've noticed although the law of physics says that there likely is but it is not at an obvious level.

I guess for those going to an ebike who really ramp up their power will experience higher levels of wear, but if like me you use low levels of assistance then getting ebike specific components (as in harder wearing) would be a waste of money.