Cycling UK Forum

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere. I have just heard that David Lewis - brilliant Audax rider and organiser, campaigner and all round good bloke has passed away. I didn't even know he was ill so this was quite a shock.

When I lived in Cardiff (now 12 years ago) Dave was everywhere, chairing the campaign group, running and riding events and generally being a completely generous guy.

Hell of a rider too - amassing huge distances and loving climbing.

His events - Trefil Travail, Glamorgan Glory, Down the British took me to roads that became some of my all time favourites.

Funeral details on AUK http://www.aukweb.net/ and more about Dave in his own words on http://www.ukcyclist.org.uk/david-lewis/314-david-lewis

A sad loss

I live about 5 miles away and I ride there regularly.

Swinley is regarded as one of the top MTB sites in the South East. I take groups there of all abilities from children to trail centre regulars. But - and its a big but - get yourself a local guide if you haven't done so already, it is a complete maze and you just won't find something suitable for your group without one. I know there are trails out there I still can't find. You also need to be led away from the walkers' and dog walking area - too congested. A good guide will improve all of your riding and will also find something that feels challenging without too much harm.

Bike hire operator also runs a decent local bike shop in Sunningdale, the hire bikes have been fine. Flat pedals, your mates can ride in trainers. Don't fuss about gear, there are all sorts there, probably around the baggie MTB look through to just street clothes rather than roadie lycra. Wear what you are comfortable with.

If you want a stag bonus take a double booking and book onto the Go Ape ropewalk as well, you need to book in advance.

Hello Gaz

The requirement in company law is that the papers have to be out 21 days before a meeting. It is then down to a company's internal documents to decide any further detail.

So CTC's Standing orders for general meetings say:

The Agenda shall be printed in full in the issue of the Club Magazine due for publication not less than 21 days before the meeting.

There is then a special condition for AGM's only:

d) Notice of motion from Members for the agenda for the Annual General Meeting shall be delivered to the Registered office of the Club not later than 1st February preceding the meeting. This shall not however prevent motions being submitted on behalf of the Council to the Agenda Committee at a later date.

These have beeen in place since well before I was at CTC.

Motions from members have a deadline, not from the Council, the papers will be out on time.

Nothing else has changed - the proposal to the AGM recommended by the Commission will suggest that the Articles and the Powers have just be re-ordered to separate them.

Following a review of CTC’s application to become a charity in England and Wales, the Charity Commission has now accepted that the work of CTC is charitable, but has recommended that we complete a new application reflecting more modern wording of our Objects. Approval of this wording by the 2012 CTC AGM will complete the process in line with members’ previous votes and our existing registration in Scotland, enabling us to merge with CTC Charitable Trust as one membership charity.

Chair of Council David Cox said “I am delighted that the Commission now has a clear understanding what CTC does. They have encouraged us to re-apply and helped us produce a shorter, clearer statement of our Objects which will meet their criteria. The key point for members now is that these revised Objects need to be approved at this year’s AGM by a 75% majority of votes cast so your support will be needed one more time.”


Find out more

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3337

Its pretty straightforward Gaz, and definately not related to charitable status.

Member groups told us in no uncertain terms that some old MG policies didn't work for many of them, mainly because it was too cumbersome to create new groups and that many members like to be part of multiple activities and groups at a local level.

The new freedom to create overlapping groups and more groups at a local level was overwhelmingly endorsed by the groups themselves, but creates a second difficulty with a competition that historically rewarded the idea of going to another group to take part in their events. It has also created a bottleneck in getting all groups to formally confirm how they want to operate in the new structure, so the event coordinator has been hanging on for a definitive list of groups.

It is frustrating for them and us, we have done much better this year in getting groups returns back to national office, but two months after the deadline we are still waiting for about 10 groups.

We could just punt out a list, but then we will have the nightmare of people submitting entries for unrecognised groups.

Regards

Sent to CTC volunteer networks on Friday 6th January

Message from the Chair of CTC Council about the progress of CTC Charitable conversion

Progress of CTC Charitable conversion

You may have been contacted in the last few days about progress with the conversion of Cyclists’ Touring Club to a charity as agreed at the 2010 AGM. A copy of an email from the Charity Commission of England and Wales (CCEW) rejecting CTC’s application for registration has been circulated.

The purpose of this email is to clarify the Council’s position in relation to that correspondence. It is in fact the decision we received in the autumn and does not contain any new information. A similar application has been approved by the Scottish regulators and CTC is now registered as a charity in Scotland. This means we are already subject to charity regulation and have to act as a charity in everything Cyclists’ Touring Club does.

Since receiving the CCEW decision we have taken extensive legal advice and consulted with other partners in the voluntary sector.

The consistent advice we have received is that it is highly unusual for an application to be passed in Scotland while not in England and any charity that can pass the public benefit test in Scotland should do so in England and Wales.

Our legal advisors are currently drafting our application for a review of the CCEW decision on a number of grounds. After application the review may take up to three months but we are encouraged that all our advice has consistently said that our application to become a charity is robust, not least because it is already proven in Scotland.

When considering membership organisations such as the London Cycling Campaign and the RSPB which are comparable to the CTC and already have charitable status in England and Wales, we feel confident that we will succeed in due course and remain committed to achieving registration.

In wider terms the Council is reporting the end of a relatively successful year which as expected has been unaffected by charity matters: finances are on target, we are managing the transition out of high levels of government funding, member benefits and campaigning continue.

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me on david.cox@ctc.org.uk

Best cycling regards for 2012.

David Cox
Chair of CTC Council
January 5th 2012.

The issue of a price on the mag cover is something to do with whether we have to assume VAT is part of your membership fee - and I can never remember what. Its one of those subjects where I am just so grateful that someone else does the detail, but I know it has to be there.

We haven't had a subscription only mag offer for years but it does go to a lot of libraries and youth hostels for free.

For the other posters I can confirm that the information you provide is vital - CTC members may cover all ages and interests but you are a very diverse in your tastes for magazine content. The sort of amount you will spend on your kit helps tell us what sort of bikes and holidays to review as well as giving us a fantastic resource to show to advertisers. Its no secret - without £200,000 per year in advertising income there is a real knock on to subs, but we really don't want to waste your pages or the advertisers money by chasing ads that nobody is interested in.

Kevin

Philip

I would be grateful if you could resend the two emails you refer to.

I was with David Cox last week and he has no record of the email to him, and I amongst the many emails I have from you I don't recall another one requesting information for the forum.

regards, Kevin

NB, if you are seeking this information for the forum or other publication it is usually polite to say so in your correspondence. On a matter involving a process such as staff redundancies there are things one could say to an experienced individual member such as yourself in confidence but could be highly prejudicial to a fair process if published.

Sorry Mick if I was unclear.

To analyse this sort of survey data it is worth collecting what we might broadly call standard data, and to track change we need it to be compatible with past surveys.

Having done this sort of thing many times I can assure you that cross referencing to databases is often more trouble than it is worth - factors such as the many CTC members who don't supply details such as age or members who don't know where their membership card is from year to year tend to skew the results.

regards

Kevin

Thank you for these comments which have been brought to my attention.

The survey was created, paid for and will be analysed by our magazine publishers at no cost to CTC.

This is as far as I know their tried and tested approach for assessing readership responses and most surveys of this nature will capture data, if only to address issues like geographic spread. Its easier to do that from the forms than try to cross reference every reply with the CTC database.

I think the points about an on line survey may be valid, I don’t know what resources they have to do on line surveying but we can ask for future surveys.

However my main reason for posting is to address the data protection point. We never, ever, sell your data to third parties and we don't allow any of our agencies to keep your data for that purpose. If you look back over the years I suspect the most anyone will ever have had from us is an offer of a discounted place at various cycle shows which we believe members find valuable and mailings for occasional discounted services which we have selected.

If you ever think a mailing has come from a source that has obtained your data via CTC please let us know urgently.

Kevin Mayne

Thanks to the various posters on the Scotland/England dilemma.

The relevant AGM motion said “This AGM authorises Council to take the steps necessary to register the Club as a charity with the Charity Commission for England and Wales, the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator and the Charity Commission for Northern Ireland and to merge the Club with CTC Charitable Trust to become a single, charitable organisation.”

It is not just been an issue for us, many charities work in both jurisdictions. In the past UK charities only needed to register with one but the rules changed some years ago so we have to register in Scotland in order to operate there, but apparently not vice versa. Greg (Regulator) summed it up best – we need more advice on how we handle this.

However I can confirm the point that the Council has been bound to ensure CTC acts as a charity since the AGM passed a motion telling it to, that much has been consistent in all the advice we have had. Council has not made a change in policy or direction that I can report as a result of the current rejection by the Commission, the AGM motion requires them to continue down this path. The way it happens may have to change to reflect circumstances, we don’t know until we get that additional advice.

Those with a really detailed interest in the subject may have seen last weeks Select committee hearing into the Charity Commission which does highlight how the way they work and the details of around charity regulation are still evolving.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b016xd7j/Select_Committees_Charity_Commission_Committee/

Useful chat with Karen this morning about member groups, thanks.

The only additional point I would make to her post is that while we have extensively considered the way MGs might fit into the charity the one thing we know with MGs is that they are all different in what they do and how they do it. So when it comes to considering the groups Council has taken the view that it will proceed cautiously and only consider this once the other processes are complete.

CTC Scotland is not a company, structurally it is a Member Group.

I apologise that I posted on this thread somewhat in haste earlier in the week when I know I would not be able to return to the discussion for several days.

Rereading the post I recognise that I was a bit personal in my thoughts too, not what I should be doing.

I’ll add some comments here to the initial points I have picked up today and I’ll monitor the posts now for a few days, if there are other comments I’ll try to respond.

Kevin

Trustees.

The advice we have is that the Council were de-facto trustees from the last AGM because they had an AGM resolution to become a charity. They signed the applications for charity status as trustees and from the moment the charity registration in Scotland went through they are required to ensure that the Club is solely charitable in purpose regardless of where in the UK we operate.

I know opinions may differ on this forum about whether that will make any significant difference to members, the Council’s position is that it will not and I am happy to provide links to the areas of the FAQ where the position is discussed.

Publication.

Thanks to the posters who have highlighted the lack of papers on the web site. I had missed that, when the person who does the posting come back from holiday I will find out why and get them reinstated.

I hope most members will accept that the details of any correspondence with regulators is not appropriate for publication on a web site. As there will always be a degree of negotiation in these matters neither party would expect the debate to be conducted in that way. I actually think it is inappropriate to publish the charity commission officer’s name and number on the forum too, she is just one individual doing her job inside a public authority and has no reason to expect herself to become public property. I’ll mention it to the moderators, they may not agree.

I know from reading the posts above some of you don’t agree, but I have no authority to publish that material and I note that the Commission has said that it is private to the Trustees.

If you have not been involved in this thread before I’ll try to point up the material that is in the public domain which covers most of the same issues.

Member groups.

Thanks for the posts in this area.

In 1973 member groups were financially and constitutionally separated from the Club. This eases the burden in accounting and audit terms and also removes them from the Club’s VAT registration – no VAT on entry fees and cups of tea for example.

This means that at present the groups are outside the Club’s charitable registration. The Council has said they will consult on what happens next after the Club’s registration and merger with our charitable trust. The only current change is that the annual grants are now money leaving a charity, so the Trustees have to prove that this is for the Club’s charitable purposes. Running a CTC member group in all its forms meets that test as far as we know, but it just has to be stated clearly.

There is now an active member groups committee advising the Council and staff on groups’ policy. Participation is open, if you or someone you know wants to be involved please put their name forward. I’m not aware that anyone has raised the issues in Karen’s post, if you want the group to discuss this Karen please contact me directly.

I hope these comments help.

I am sure that for certain readers of this forum there is little I can say that will change your perspective.

However for those with a more open mind I would just comment that Greg got his report from the Council meeting that took place last Saturday. That’s a meeting any member can attend, but by and large they chose not to.

We discussed a lot of issues, especially the state of CTC at the end of a relatively successful year which as expected has been unaffected by charity matters: finances are on target, we are managing the transition out of high levels of government funding, member benefits and campaigning continue.

For about five minutes we discussed the fact that the Club’s application for charitable status has been approved by the Scottish regulators and the CTC is now registered as a charity in Scotland but in England and Wales we have been pressing for an early decision on our application so we could possibly start our new financial year on October 1st 2011 as a registered charity. The Charity Commission has undergone significant change recently with significantly reduced staff and the Council always knew that they had stopped giving pre-registration advice in the way they used to some years ago. Now it appears they are even more inclined to reject applications quickly rather than allow charities time to negotiate or amend applications, preferring to deal with problems through re-application or appeal.

The Charity Commission rejected our first application because they have some concerns that we will need to address before we can go ahead. We are going to take some additional advice about the best way forward from here, including how we handle the different approaches taken by the Scottish and English regulators.

It’s not a show stopper in anyone’s mind and its certainly not something I assumed we would be putting on the web site, most members have told us they are rather bored with the internal workings of CTC and just want us to get on with doing what we do well. Not worth rushing now, no doubt at the AGM 2013 someone will ask why we changed between company and charity halfway through one of our financial years but if we need to make some changes to smooth our way past the Commission we will do so in due course.

Sorry if the actual story is somewhat underwhelming,

Kevin Mayne

The Association of Lightweight Campers fulfilled this role for many years as a sort of umbrella. It is now a section of the Camping and Caravanning Club http://www.lightweightcampers.org.uk/

It shares a common history with CTC because the original proposer of a national Bicycle Touring Club wanted it to be a very much a camping club and disappointed with the number of members who insisted on using hotels he switched his focus to a camping club which he helped found.

CTC has identified within our member groups that we should have a structure for national special interest groups to form their own groups, potentially recieving some funding and national publicity. The most active start-up under this umbrella is the Inclusive Cycling Forum but if members would like to form a CTC camping club even as a virtual group we would be interested in hearing from you.

regards

Kevin Mayne