Cycling UK Forum

There is one option which can deliver without the current 'problem' being raised by HMRC conditions with some employers - the residual value of the bike, and how this impacts on the closing payment (sale of the bike at residual value to you after leasing it from your employer for the duration of the scheme).

That is for the employer to lease a bike or fleet of bikes and have these available for staff use, but not allocated specifically as a benefit in kind (Form P11 - and you pay for this in tax). The leased bike fleet will, like a leased car fleet, require regular servicing, and so a lessor will either have an in house workshop, or a contract with a cycle workshop to deliver servicing and support for the leased fleet.

Just as leased cars are renewed on a rolling programme, so leased bikes are renewed generating a healthy supply of secondhand bikes for sale and a regular order for new bikes. This model works for most successful and well run bike hire centres.

I'd refer you to the scheme which the Belgians used - far more sensible then the UK one for car scrappage. Hand in your old car and you get 3 years free bus travel, and 3 years free membership of the car sharing club (typically this offers a new car for £4/hour including fuel for 50 miles), and the same bus company also offers a leased folding bike (Strida) for around £10/month. Result - the removal of poorly maintained old and new cars from the road, and a regular renewal plan for the car club vehicles (smaller numbers but more consistent ordering plan).

It sounds as if the train was pretty empty - what was your estimate of the passenger numbers (not the passengers with bikes, but the total on the train)

It sounds as if Coach C was defective in some way so it was locked out of use leaving Coach B all second class and a toilet and coach A with the middle section of the saloon as first class and guard's office.

I've regularly seen bikes going in to the Coach A section*, especially on busy trains, asn many people don't realise there is a small standard class enclave in Coach A. * I often end up doing a change of trains at Preston around 7 am and check-out the 07.16 TPE train to Glasgow - often with 2-4 bikes on board and 20-30 passengers, easy to do a swift count from outside the train.

Persevere and you'll get to cope with these little nuances of the modern railway.

If you see the state of some of the vans and the driving standards, it may be that the posties will be safer - but I suspect that the overall safety of the public at large on foot or on their bikes might actually reduce by a small margin......

A picture and just a few of the right words - speaks volumes So many Hospitals have their No Smoking Here signs posted directly over the little bins for douts and stubbing out, and here's one of a series of double takes from the Railway version of Private Eye - New Labour New Colour - the future is .... Orange ..... be afraid be very afraid.....

http://railwayeye.blogspot.com/2010/03/ ... re-is.html

Also referred to as - Captain Permatan and a higher ranking fellow officer.

I've just caught up with my reading of a magazine that might appeal to those who yearn to discuss utility cycling and practical travel - they wanted to call it The Traveller but Conde got Nastey and hence A to B was born from The Folder and is about to hit its centennial edition. The February issue has a great article on the Midland Railway marketing the scenic qualities of its slower route (than LNWR) to Scotland, to cyclists and walkers.

A to B is perhaps leading the way also in offering an on-line subscription where you get access to view the pages and download them (and non subscribers can get a reduced quality and miniaturised overview of the contents) no longer a pile of magazines which you need to put somewhere on a shelf, but can carry around on a USB stick.

Funnily enough I was trying to find out what had become of Richard Hutchins, and his magnum opus of a 5000 mile 'resource' predating both the National Byway and Sustrans NCN - Qwac'rs, or its full title of Quiet Wind Assisted Cycle Routes, for older and less able people, which included full advice on how to get uphill and up-wind without cycling. It would be nice to keep this book available and perhaps revise it for a 3rd edition. Richard had wanted to hand it over to a fresh publisher but I think the arrangements went supine.

He was based in Clapham (Beds) albeit some years ago as it was over 20 years since he rolled up at Sustrans Glasgow office en route to the Gatliff Hostels (he was a Trustee). Post any info as IM.

NUKe - Roadcraft's key mantra MSM or MGMSM in its full form translates better for all road users as

Visual (Check) Prepare (right gear, right speed, right alignment) Visual (Check again) Signal (convey intent if other road users present) Manouevre. Works for pedestrians too!

VPVSM - it is practically instinctive to regular cyclists but the idea of formally recognising what you do and why makes it less likely that you miss a vital action and get caught out.

What was set out as the system of car control in 1935 has proved itself over the last 85 years.

Pwward - Interesting that you seem to have found more spaces than the operatros officially quote - XC Voyager trains have (Coach D) 3 hooks (official) and a huge area under a big shelf (better and unofficial) the posters with wording on their bike policy have changed (thank you Richard G), and now reflect a reservations - then first come first served policy.

The Newcastle-Carlisle service is technically a Northern Rail one but operates with shared trains - so you might even find an SPT liveried Class 156 at Newcastle Central if the allocation gets jumbled up. Northern were operating an East Midlands Trains (Stagecoach) unit on Leeds-Nottingham recently - very confusing! These trains normally take 6 bikes on hooks (badly designed) but 8 or more will stack in the same space and there is space at the opposite end for more. The Scotrail units are easier to board because they've taken off the sliding door into the bike area - giving an extra 4 inches to get round the corner with.

Were the trains busy? At the Community Rail Active Travel conference in Morecambe I heard tales which ran to 13 bikes on the 70-seat single carriage Class 153 - I've seen 7 going on one at Carlisle for Whitehaven. These are about the worst train to get on with a bike as the access is narrow with a 90 degree turn. Double figures on basic 2-carriage trains are not uncommon and when there are often just 30-50 passengers on board you are a significant contribution to the revenue.

The quality/quantity balance may have some relevance but a 60% reduction is likely to have some substantial omissions

As Jeremy Parker neatly highlighted (CTC Rights Network e-list) - ACPO Police cyclists handbook = 93 pages, John Franklin's Cyclecraft (DfT Manual for cyclists) = 249 pages, John Forester's Effective Cycling (US version of Cyclecraft) = 599 pages, and US International Police MB Association handbook - yet to count - but between Cyclecraft and Effective Cycling.

One wonders what has been cut-out to deliver the answers to all Police cycling needs in only 93 pages?

Chris started this thread with the view that we should be reporting the positives and gains that can be delivered from cyclists using trains effectively (and show how the good operators are delivering a product that the users want and can use easily)

As a publicly visible forum it can be viewed by train operators and one individual has done a bit of analysis - the responses - discounting any from Chris or I, are 47% clear positive against just 18% negative or bad experiences, and the remainder being general commentary or our postings. Of the downside comments, the 2 prominent features are Virgin's compulsory policy and poor booking system, and some general inconsistencies with Scotrail.

Well done folks. Keep that feed of information flowing in the words of the song let ac-centuate the positive and e-liminate the negative.....

Dave

Used the bike to great effect yesterday - Invite to attend SWT presentation and meet new MD (still not quite as relaxed in the job as his predecessor (laconic outside but focussed within) but we'll work on him).

Left house 04.12 arrived station 04.19 for 04.28 train - ran to time arriving Euston 09.04 and headed for Waterloo - slight frustration seemed to catch every key traffic light at red en route - arrived Waterloo 09.17 and caught 09.20 to Woking - leaving station 09.48 to get in to venue for 10.00 start.

Return from Guildford caught 18.34 arriving Waterloo 19.15, made 'progress' across Waterloo Bridge, rolled in to Euston 19.27 by their clocks and found Glasgow train 19.30 in time .... and then the let down the train waited for incoming crew until 20.05 and was heaving with extra passengers being specially carried to MK, Rugby and Crewe.

But most worthy of note was 18.34 Guildford-Waterloo. 2 bikes off at Guildford - at least 4 seen boarding (including one diverting via Woking because the Ascot train was cancelled. 5 bikes in one bay - unknown number in other bay to Woking - 2 bikes off 2 bikes on, but then the really curious thing - all the other cyclists got off at Clapham Junction...... Many bikes (standard and folding) were also coming out at Guildford at 18.27 (when I arrived for train) - perhaps 2-5% of the passengers coming through the subway?

2 other details from SWT of interest - 80% growth in use of Waterloo-Bristol / Exeter services since regular hourly service introduced but all trains now 3-coach class 158 with bike friendly space in 3 coach-end bays and the 09.20 was 9 coaches - 1 set to Salisbury, 1 set running on to Bristol and 1 set running to Exeter SD - bike capacity 18 bikes - and potentially more. Then they are perhaps the first TOC to offer a secure cycle parking compound - at Surbiton (more are planned)- and within a very short period there was a waiting list for places, and massive drop in cycle thefts.

I used to know someone working for a government agency who would occasionally give me "a letter I had written" about my observation of the organisation and its workings and relationships with the world at large.

As a corollary you might ponder on a couple of comments/thoughts on a fortnightly magazine called Private Eye. A contact of mine nted that he now only read 2 'newspapers' The Economist and Private Eye, as they were the only ones where some semblance of journalism (probity, and sound research of the stories) remains. For the latter (and quite possibly the former in a parallel fashion), the taverns of Carlisle Street and Leicester Square are but a short walk from Whitehall for a liquid lunch. The Eye often gets sued - rarely with great success.....

Roger Ford (Modern Railways) has nabbed a wonderful moniker "Informed Sources" for his column and other ramblings - either as himself or Captain Deltic - a reference to his apprentice-days developing the eponymous locomotive, originally without Government support, which transformed the East Coast rail services. We need a few Informed Sources writing on the growing policy and practice regimes in the cycling world. My preferred alter egos reflect on a love of language - especially French - when I am writing 'a Velo' and German for die "Eisenbahnen" and Autobahn.

A similar process converts DfT to Daft, and rail operators to Gods Wonderful Railway (their opinin and outlook) or Bankrupt and Rationalised - how we used to have a fully integrated system.

The trend continues - when a college expanded the facilities on its site the only land available was the car park - so the car park was closed and a place for those driving to the college was provided on Madingley Road, which is a main bus corridor for all routes including the City Park & Ride site, on this site they installed cycle lockers and regular commuting staff and students keep a bike there to cober the last mile, or catch a bus - and because the facility was PLANNED to be on the main road beside a bus stop they ge a pretty intensive daytime service to the college.

Thanks for the numbers folks - and the notes on helpful COACH drivers (most long distance replacement services use coaches because they are more comfortable, have proper luggage space and can travel at 100Kph (62.5) instead of 90 Kph (56))

However to really make the point can you please try and indicate how full the train is. Cross Country for example would boost their flagging revenue if they made it easier to book a bike AND easier to fit a decent number of bikes on thier trains (as it used to be). Travelling back North on recent occasions I've counted between 30 and 50 passengers on the train North of Newcastle (with between 202 and 542 seats available to fill) just 3 bikes and 5-10% of the fare paying passengers will be cyclists. Some trains practically guarantee this in the summer (Ardrossan Boat train (14.15 ex GLC) regularly has 12-15 bikes and 120 or so passengers)

Rower 40 - rather than have a copy of the key and potentially bigger trouble if you upset the staff, you can use a small screwdriver wedged into the corner and pivoted around the pin, if no staff turn up but don't operate the door until the door release is active for the train as the doors are all interlocked with the braking system. Useful to have this in reserve though.

Tigerbiten - Why did you go back to Victoria - better travelling companions? How many did the ride (around 80 riders IIRC) get back on the trains (per train)? Some weekends FCC is running through Blackfriars from Brighton to St Pancras, with options to change there or Luton/Bedford. Otherwise you have a shorter ride from London Bridge across and up via Holborn Viaduct/Farringdon Road to St Pancras.

Any idea how full the train was? - Was it a Class 156 which has 6 spaces for bikes (normal Shotts Line units) installed with funding from Scottish Government - I'd suggest a letter to customer relations to ask them how many bike spaces are provided on their Class 156 trains, following the scheme (in 1998 I recall) to increase provision of Classs 156 units and improve provision on Class 158 units. Ask them to advise which routes are operated by these units, and which routes are operated by their other diesel units (the Class 170) and the number of bikes paces provided on these trains

You might additionally comment that you note the services from Glasgow to Edinburgh via Bathgate are soon to start, using electric units and it would also be useful to know the arrangements for cycle carriage on their electric fleet (Class 314 (no proper bike spaces - but in Liverpool thes units regularly carry up to 30 bikes per 3 coaches), Class 318 (no bike spaces since SPT specified the removal of tip-up seats), Class 320 (no official bike spaces but tip-up seats), 322 (8 bike spaces - North Berwick service) and 334 (no official bike spaces but regularly have 10% of passengers with bikes catching Arran Ferry - huge area of tip-up seating) - don't add my notes in brackets - see what the official response is.

When you get the answer about the number of bike spaces on the Class 156. Was this the one you were refused access to because it had 2 bikes on? Use the 6 bikes figure to ask why you and the other cyclists were refused travel when the train has 6 official spaces for cycles which have been paid for by the taxpayer (ie you!). You might also ask if they can provide the average passenger loading for this service and the number of seats available on the Class 156 trains. From your previous post it sounds as if the loading was about 50-60% of seats filled and the cyclists were 15-20% of the fare paying passengers.

Given the desirability of making money (or requiring less subsidy - from you & me again) a third letter/e-mail might ask them to explain this position to you and your MSP with regard to the way a public transport service is provided, and a substantial number of fare paying passengers refused travel.

Copies to MSP and CTC as you go - if you need any more detail e-mail me of Forum