Cycling UK Forum

The headline of the post is misleading. 13 deaths are a tragedy, but the question is really a statistical one. Whilst deaths are up, the real question is 'is the number of deaths relative to the size of the cycling population up?'. This is a very different question.

This can even be developed further to cover mileage: 'Are the number of cycling deaths relative to the annual cycled mileage within the UK up?'

If the press headlines are to be believed (recently seen - 'Cycling is the new golf', 'the Wiggins effect' etc) plus the soaring cost of public transport then it would seem to be the numbers cycling is on the increase. Based on my limited experience of cycling amongst a population of goodness knows what size there seem to be more cyclists around compared with the years (over 30 years ago!) in which I was the only cyclist on the road as I travelled to a holiday job in the vicinity of Heathrow - a round trip of some 30 miles! When I cycle today this is rarely the case - there is always another cyclist on one side of the road or another! This suggests the cycling population is up. Therefore the number of cycling deaths would realistically go up.

Further the pattern suggested by the figures is often just random statistical noise - and unless trends are looked at over a very long period of time again its hard to draw sensible conclusions.

Unless some sort of relative comparison with either the cycling population or the cycled mileage is made, its hard to draw any sensible conclusions about the relative safety of cycling.

NB As a more obscure point, what about the numbers of deaths prevented by people taking up cycling?

Well dear OP, you found one too!
What we should all be doing apart from identifying, naming and shaming the companies and their drivers that scare the living daylights out of us is doing the opposite as well. Get the registration number, the company telephone number and ring them and say 'I'd really like to commend your driver of XXX for a fabulous piece of sage driving.' Most transport managers will initially suspect you are nuts, but I reckon given half a chance they might really take to it!

So come on CTC how about a 'Transport Company of the Year' award and a 'Driver of the Year' award - I am sure that such an award would do something for a company's reputation and maybe even their insurance premiums… you could even get an insurance company to sponsor it!

Encourage the behaviour we all want (as well as catch those who kill and maim)!

You might try wearing one of these:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/22148120 ... 0&ff14=108

The Polite Notice seems to work as it look all to much like Police….not tried it myself but seen some good reports on the BBC…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29894590

If not try the following: if you can follow to his place of work. Then call his employer - argue that all employees are ambassadors for their employers and his driving is damaging the company reputation. Most employers will sit up and take notice and tell the employee not to behave like a prat near work.

If you can't, call it in on 101 each day. Every day. Get it logged.

Apologies for the delay! Work…..

I spoke to the 'Directeur Sportif' and he was partially surprised, bemused and annoyed both with me and the suspect. He said he had a fair idea of who it was but asked me to email him with details. He would then respond to me. I duly did so and he has not replied…

I feel satisfied - it would have been nice to hear back but I'm too busy to chase him. His verbal reaction was enough - it wasn't acceptable and he would speak to the rider…

Vehicles I have seen where DRLs can be switched off:-
Skoda Yeti (2 years old)
Audi A6 (6 years old)
VW Transporter Van (newish)

BE careful about taking fuses out..they often serve more than one circuit - I had an old BMW where the indicators jammed on.. I thought I would remove the fuse, until I saw it also was attached to the brake lights!

You can turn DRLs off on most cars - I am aware of three very different vehicles that I look after, all have DRLs and they can be turned off via a control panel.
I ALWAYS keep them on simply for insurance reasons. On the accident report form..'did you have lights on?' tick a YES! So a precaution…

Oh and they are not always LEDS..they can be what we used to call side lights (with an old fashioned bulb too).

I'm not sure about the legality of turning them off. It may be if you have them you have to use them, but I am unaware of the exact wording of the Vehicle Construction and Use regulations on these.

Certainly in Canada they are mandatory as well as in parts of Europe. My recollection is that they are a Swedish idea…like the 3rd brake light. Personally I like them.

Coming back from Cumbria today my experience tells me it makes drivers more careful about pulling out in front of you…they can gauge the distance better, but this could be a matter of perception.

Oh and the prospect of rear daytime running lights looms - I have seen these in Canada….

Not sure whether a DRL failure (or having to switched off) would constitute an MOT failure or something that VOSA would pick up on.

To be honest there are so few traffic police anyway you probably can get away with it….they certainly never seem to stop people having blown headlights, brake lights, tail lights, indicators etc!

All the replies have been most encouraging. I will give the club a polite call Friday and see what happens. I will report back!

I must say I give any cyclist a cheery nod and a smile if they are on the other side of the road, and I have had some really funny (and quite flirtatious!) remarks when being passed by or passing other cyclists! Its a pleasure and part of the joy!

But some of these solo club riders (I guess on solo training runs - I cycle at odd times of day as I do not have a regular working pattern) seem so far up their own saddle contact points… well I guess they breathe out chamois cream!

One would think that the world would end if they managed to crack a smile - I suppose its the same in the other areas of their lives!

In the meantime…happy riding to you all! (and I'm back in the saddle on my other bike Friday afternoon - yippee!)

I could not believe this…
Last week I dropped my car in for repairs and popped my folding bike in the boot. So at the garage I handed over the keys and pedalled off home. Its a route I know well (A1000 between Hatfield and Potters Bar, Hertfordshire). As I was nearing the end of my journey a roadie, replete in kit from a Finchley cycling club (How do I know...it was plastered all over his backside, white text on a black kit) overtook me. Fine. I don't care as such about that…

His handlebar was less than an inch from mine. One wobble from either of us, we 'd both be all over the road. No warning (he had headphones in). He then brutally cut in front of me causing me to swerve. Why? Its not as if a car was coming…the road was empty for at least 2 minutes either side of the incident.

Why? This is not the TdF, or the ToB. Its poor road craft. Thats all. All I can hope is that this individual self selects themselves out of the evolutionary chain.. cycling recklessly like that he will and it will be his fault and no one else's.

I was tempted to ring the club secretary and have a rant, but having spoken to these sort of clubs in Hertfordshire I doubt they would even care to listen let alone see what the problem is…

If I ran a club ..I'd throw him out for bringing the club into disrepute or at least warn him of this.

Many forum members would do the same for errant drivers..ring the firm concerned. Maybe its time we started to haul these errant cyclists back in too...

Two points:-

When pulled over like this (or indeed anytime you are stopped by the police), always ask under what piece of legislation you are being stopped or what offence you are being charged with. If they can't name it or can't tell you, you are perfectly within your rights to say 'well, unless there was anything else, I'm off then'. You are a citizen going about your lawful business; (alright the terrorism legislation is different, but I don't think that is in this league)

Complain: in writing to the Police force. Check the website and follow the requirements down to the letter. As much detail as you can, weather, road conditions, what you were wearing (or not).Its really important that this sort of bullying ( and thats what it is) is stopped and the officers concerned given 'words of advice'. Abuse of legal powers is a serious matter.

I wonder is it worth CTC getting some advice from Liberty on this sort of thing? A set of standard advice would be very useful!

Not sure on this one…..there is always an element of them and us but…

Oh and its more then just one club…I saw two in the events described in the OP and have seen this behaviour from many London clubs - I will not say all…

My wife cycled in London during the last Underground strike and she was appalled by what she saw cyclists do…and she cycles regularly here in the Shires too…

I think all I'm saying is that behave like a Londoner in London if you must, but when in Rome….try and behave like a Roman…

Apart from being rude, culturally insensitive behaviour will get you killed in some parts of the world!

Enjoy Hertfordshire, the lanes, the hills, the views, but leave the London behaviour where it fits…in London!

OK this is a rant. Twice over the last few days I have both been subject to and seen what can only be called poor road manners from London Club cyclists (how do I know this? They had their club names plastered all over various bits of their anatomy!).

First, near Brickendon (Hertfordshire) some cycling event was taking place over the bank holiday weekend. No problems - great to see! Nice to see the routes I use are being used for such events - I must be doing something challenging! What was poor was the cyclists from a North London Club who had finished the event standing in the road having a conversation! Where is the intelligence in that? I have what looks like a finish line on the other side of the road and these selfish individuals ignoring the rest of us going about our business (I was driving my family at the time). Do I hoot? No. I don't want what looks like a lycra'd version of The Mob (super dark sunglasses, US marine style haircuts and the odd tattoo on show) pounding the car.

Second, back in the area for a ride and this individual from another club with mythological origins comes snorting past me no more than 1 inch from my handlebars with a gruff 'morning' (OK, civil, but wrong..it was afternoon). No warning that he was passing - nothing. Suppose I had decided to stop? Or turn round to check before turning right?

So please - if you belong to a London Cycling Club be aware you are in Hertfordshire - other rules apply - like courtesy and consideration - something I have always found from club riders from outside of London (but not seen any from other metropolitan areas!). If you can't adopt your behaviour to the countryside, STAY IN LONDON!

Rant over.

I try to take a Darwinian perspective…I hope that eventually these individuals will (hopefully) self select themselves out of the evolutionary process…by self terminating through reckless or even dangerous driving….

Unfortunately they tend to take others (like cyclists) with them…
Still its a thought..

There is the alternative issue with taking the lane to avoid the wing mirror. I did this on Sunday close to the QE2 hospital in Welwyn Garden City. At one of those dreaded pinch points on the A1000 where there is a pedestrian crossing island in the middle of the road I carefully moved over to the primary riding position - nothing was behind me when I moved. Some teenage or early 20 year old prat came out of a side road (Ascots Lane - I'd spotted him behind the give way lines as I rode past) and the first and only indication that I was in serious danger was the scream of rubber being burnt to the road. Judging by the noise he was doing well over 30 mph. I have never been so scared in my entire life - on or off a bike. No warning. Nothing. To cap it all he then scraped by me with his wing mirror an inch away from my drops as I moved back to the secondary riding position. I got his registration number but having discussed it with my better half, they advised me not to report it as there was no point. No witnesses. No damage. Would Herts Constabulary be interested? No. It would never go to court and even there it would probably be kicked out - and my better half is a magistrate so I take their advice seriously!

As an occasional mountain biker, I do not usually post in this area of the forum. However, one incident last week left me irate and puzzled.

I took my two children to Whinlater and went round the Quercus (blue) route with them. The older one is keen and skilful, but this was only the second time my youngest had ridden off road on this trail. They were doing fine - oldest in front, youngest in the middle and me at the back acting as sweeper up / snack bar/ drinks carrier and rearguard.

One rider went past and he was civilised, polite and patient as my youngest negotiated a raised timber section of the trail. We all pulled over to let him past.

Later on in a wooded section, to my horror and utter amazement a further rider went past at what I can only describe as race pace. A scream of 'ON YOUR RIGHT!" and this rider shot past me at a pace well beyond what I would describe as 'controlled'. I yelled 'Mind my children' - too late. I rode down and found my eldest white faced and swearing about - well the sort of language I reserve for car drivers who pass 2 inches from my handlebars on the road. My youngest was shaking like a leaf (at age 11). It took some reassurance from me that I would now stick to their rear wheel to prevent such incidents occurring again. No warning was issued by the passing rider and no attempt was made to slow down.

To me that sort of riding is:-
1) Reckless
2) Dangerous
3) Reserved for those occasions when junior riders will NOT be on the trail (so outside of half term or school holidays)
4) Should be banned

The last point is easy. Operate the trail centres like ski resorts. Buy a day pass, sign the rules and if you are caught breaking them you are banned. End of story.
End of rant. Other than that, we all loved it!

I must admit to being baffled by this campaign. I saw DRLs in Canada long before they were introduced here and was impressed -in 'low light but not quite dark enough conditions to put dipped lights on' I thought they made driving much easier as cars were more visible. Given the general climate for at least 6 months of the year here I regard them as a positive contribution to road safety.

The campaign is getting confused over 1) DRLs and 2) more modern forms of headlight.
My wife's car uses DRLs - they are traditional halogen bulbs. So why the concern?

Now other forms of car light such as Xenon discharge and LEDS are a different story. From a driving point of view they are significantly better than halogens - I certainly appreciate them. They illuminate the road much better and farther than halogens and will rarely if ever need replacing - so much greener. (Not sure about how Xenon is gathered from the atmosphere or how much there is left…a question for someone!).

They do require proper car set up - so cars with these have to have auto level adjusting headlights - so that when the car is loaded the lights are not illuminating the oncoming drivers but the road. I think there are three far more serious challenges here that are ignored by this campaign.

First, retro fitting. There a number of cars I have seen that have had these modern lights retro-fitted without the auto-levelling. These are a danger as the lights do dazzle oncoming drivers as the lights are often ill-adjusted and the absence of suspension levelling means the light bounces up and down with the potholes
I understand these may be a breach of the Vehicle Construction and Use regulations but it is unclear and untested. I think this should be an automatic MOT failure.

Second, night vision. We do not teach drivers how to see correctly at night. The most effective part of the eye for night vision is if I recall correctly about 10 degrees off the centre of the eyeball so you never look where you are going but just to one side. So many people are dazzled at night because they are looking at lights - and that includes those of oncoming vehicles. This leads to odd driver behaviour. I have seen many drivers crawling at 20mph on a dark straight road (60 mph limit) near me because it is unlit - they are looking where their lights shine (not far) and not into the darkness beyond. Or at the lights of oncoming vehicles. When they reach the lit up 30 mph zone, the pedal goes to the floor and its 50 mph! LESSON: DON'T LOOK AT THE LIGHTS!

Third, age. Whether we like it or not our night vision deteriorates with age (from what level is a more difficult issue). Dazzle becomes more of a problem at night. Road signs can be confusing (hence the driver near rammed by the police this week for driving the wrong way on the A14).

So what? Nationally we need to improve the standard of eyesight tests at driving test level to cover night vision, teach night driving and vision techniques and repeat eye tests say every 10 years, every 5 years after the age of 50 (and yes that covers me).

As for the rest of the campaign its very poor with its use of evidence: the absence of consideration of cultural aspects of driving (France have DRLs to and I don't see cyclists being zapped into mush there, why use Poland - I understand drink driving is more acceptable there - so causal links to DRLs are suspect).
Won't be signing it. The situation (like real life) is much much more complex than the campaign suggests.