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by mjr
2 Sep 2013, 5:44pm
Forum: Does anyone know … ?
Topic: New to Cycling
Replies: 64
Views: 7828

Re: New to Cycling

IrishBill76 wrote:If it's fitness you're after and not bothered about actually enjoying the ride, then join a bike club. Most of them average around 15 mph on their rides and ...

Check the club web pages or ask current members first, to reduce the risk of disappointment.

They can differ quite a lot on both speed and their approach to "dropping" riders who are either too slow or have mechanical incidents. For example, locally, we've a Cycle Club for the serious racers, what calls itself a "Cyclists group" for the 12-18mph averagers where it seems to be more about the speed or distance than the destination, CTC for rides on weekdays and Bicycle User Group social rides for the utility bike weekenders like me (up to about 50 miles but maybe sometimes only 10mph if conditions suck). The CC and the CG both leave riders behind, whereas definitely BUG and I believe CTC will wait to help get you back on the road if you want.
by mjr
2 Sep 2013, 11:51am
Forum: On the road
Topic: Crap cyclepaths
Replies: 126
Views: 10563

Re: Crap cyclepaths

Mark1978 wrote:I think one of the main issues is the lack of standards in this area.

Maybe I'm wrong but https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... port-notes includes LTN 2/08 Cycle infrastructure design which is pretty good. Sadly, Norfolk and North Somerset both seem to treat its standards as wildly unobtainable targets, rather than minimums. We've got standards but no-one seems to be enforcing them... tiny carrots, no sticks.
by mjr
2 Sep 2013, 11:46am
Forum: On the road
Topic: Crap cyclepaths
Replies: 126
Views: 10563

Re: Crap cyclepaths

Si wrote:... But what about the middle ground...and where are you drawing the line?

Hey, I'm not the one trying to make a false line between "crap" and "blueprint"! I think the cart track around the coast serves a purpose, but I'm not going to use that as a blueprint for a new motorway. Some paths aren't crap and aren't blueprints but still do a job well enough for now. There are shades of crapness and only the crap-free ones should be blueprints. The slightly crap ones could be inspirations, experiments or testers that might still do a job well enough for now. Just don't hold them up as exemplars.
Si wrote:So, is, for instance, a path 'crap' because it meanders through a nice scenic park - because of other park users you certainly can't do 20mph on it, and it takes longer to get to the popular destination than using the DC next to it, but it gets you there, without the threat of motorised traffic, and the new cyclist can do what is for them a healthy and safe speed, while enjoying the beautiful surroundings.. Crap or not?

If that's all that's wrong with it - it meanders and is busy with other users - it's not crap.
by mjr
2 Sep 2013, 10:50am
Forum: On the road
Topic: Crap cyclepaths
Replies: 126
Views: 10563

Re: Crap cyclepaths

Si wrote:
mjr wrote:
Si wrote:The project is also acting as a blue print for rolling out similar schemes in other areas of the city.

A blueprint for rolling out compromised less-than-ideal routes? I'm not sure that's a good thing :-S


Why are they less than ideal when, as already explained, they get people cycling and the alternative is no route (and thus not getting so many people cycling)?


They're less than ideal because the short-term number of people cycling is not the whole story. Each compromise which takes the route below standard is a future capacity limit, an increased crash risk, a barrier to some types of bike, or some other problem, and each one of those can mean not as many people cycling in the long-term, because they're fed up with cycle-traffic jams, or with their trailer being blocked by an A frame, or they're laid up with a broken collarbone following a crash on a tight bend that had tactile paving installed too close.

There aren't many fully segregated, wide , direct, priority over side roads, type cycle paths. I can offer many in Norfolk that are fully segregated, wide and direct, but priority over side roads hasn't happened TTBOMK. Personally, I feel this is because there is always someone (are your ears burning, Sustrans?) willing to compromise and bless a crap cycle path in the interest of getting a good press release and their little route logos on more signs.

I know there are wider benefits to even bad projects, but please don't use crap cyclepaths as a blueprint - use them as inspiration to do better next time: if a crap one can do this well, imagine what a good cyclepath could do!
by mjr
2 Sep 2013, 10:43am
Forum: On the road
Topic: Crap cyclepaths
Replies: 126
Views: 10563

Re: Crap cyclepaths

Vorpal wrote:
Si wrote:Does every cycle path need to be the equivalent of a motorway, DC or major A road?


No it doesn't, but IMO, every facility should do something to improve conditions for cyclists. I have come across very many facilities that do nothing of the sort.

Actually, I'd settle for a maxim that every facility should make conditions no worse. Rightly or wrongly, I do currently agree with Si that simply having space marked for cycling can increase number of cyclists as part of a wider promotional campaign. Many people new to bikes are scared of being on the road (usually wrongly, but you can only change so many attitudes in one step).

However, any "flagship" cycle route that is going to be use as a blueprint for further cycle facilities should be the cycling equivalent of a motorway. Otherwise, the compromised route is used as a blueprint and then further compromises get added and before long, we've some real crap being built, yet being trumpeted as good practice! At the very least, the first proposal should aim for the ideal route - then it's clear what compromises were made.
by mjr
31 Aug 2013, 7:48pm
Forum: On the road
Topic: Crap cyclepaths
Replies: 126
Views: 10563

Re: Crap cyclepaths

Si wrote:The project is also acting as a blue print for rolling out similar schemes in other areas of the city.

A blueprint for rolling out compromised less-than-ideal routes? I'm not sure that's a good thing :-S
by mjr
31 Aug 2013, 7:47pm
Forum: On the road
Topic: Silly rules at cycling events
Replies: 9
Views: 1894

Re: Silly rules at cycling events

Si wrote: However, I couldn't ask as when the security dude shouted "Hello, can you..." and stuck his arms out, I just shouted back very loudly "HELLO" , high fived him and sprinted through.

Oooh I hope I have the quick thinking to do that if I'm ever in a similar situation :-D :-)
by mjr
30 Aug 2013, 8:30pm
Forum: On the road
Topic: Silly rules at cycling events
Replies: 9
Views: 1894

Re: Silly rules at cycling events

BCC = Bonkers City Council?

What was the given reason?
by mjr
30 Aug 2013, 11:44am
Forum: Campaigning & Public Policy
Topic: Cyclists expected to grovel in the gutter
Replies: 25
Views: 14340

Re: Cyclists expected to grovel in the gutter

Adam S wrote:Nowadays, I'm not sure if the CTC ever use their power to erect signage.

*EDIT: Found it: http://www.wingedwheels.info/wwhist.htm
Interesting site

Great. Thanks for that. Now, does anyone know if CTC uses this power and if not, why not and can we change that?

The ability for a rider-run organisation to sign routes instead of begging Highways Authorities could be very useful. If it's not allowed to use vinyls like Sustrans do, I suspect CTC could easily do some sponsor-a-sign fundraising (possibly using the offer of signing the rest of the route to persuade HAs to make the orders for one-way exceptions and/or track conversions to fill in missing links) and it could be a good advertising/recruitment tool too - as long as the route meets standards of course (so maybe using the threat of withdrawing signs to persuade HAs to maintain them to a good standard)... basically, if I saw CTC fixing bike route signage gaps near me, I'd overlook all my other concerns and definitely pay the £50 or whatever it is happily.
by mjr
30 Aug 2013, 11:26am
Forum: The Cycling UK brand refresh
Topic: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club
Replies: 703
Views: 340533

Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Vorpal wrote:TBH, I think that some discussions have become negative. We all need a reminder now and again that the majority of members are happy, and the majority of cyclists have ride after uneventful ride without posting their near misses on on YouTube 8)

What's the source for "the majority of members are happy"? I thought the majority were silent ;-)

Agree on the uneventful bit. I got a camera a couple of years ago after a nasty incident and its rechargeable batteries are dying before it's recorded another one... the problem is the 1% gets far more than 1% of the coverage.
by mjr
29 Aug 2013, 4:46pm
Forum: Campaigning & Public Policy
Topic: Cyclists expected to grovel in the gutter
Replies: 25
Views: 14340

Re: Cyclists expected to grovel in the gutter

gaz wrote:As meic says road signing is the responsibility of the relevant highway authority. The AA and RAC also have powers to erect road signing, subject to the signs meeting the prescribed legal design criteria, H&S, etc. as do the CTC.

What signs does CTC have power to erect? Just "Warning / Cycle Event" or are there any direction signs within its power? I looked in a couple of chapters of the Traffic Signs Manual and the TSRGD without finding the power.
by mjr
29 Aug 2013, 4:19pm
Forum: On the road
Topic: Crap cyclepaths
Replies: 126
Views: 10563

Re: Crap cyclepaths

Si wrote:Next problem: can we send it right from our start point to our destination? No we can't because the pavements are too narrow and crowded, and there is a narrow railway bridge we can't get under. We have had suggestions of making the road one way, of making it tidal, of cyclist contraflows, etc...all of which would work, but the council is made up of many layers, and although the planners working with us might suggest such things, further up someone will veto them.

And this would be the point where I would walk away and look for a flagship that's actually achievable. There's two big problems with continuing:

The obvious one is that there is someone further up a hierarchy who does not really agree with doing things to get people on bikes. If you need compulsary purchase for any of it, it's probably going to be blocked. If you want path permissions, it's probably going to be a slow process done with a low priority. The new route may be last in line for maintenance budget, leading to vegetation encroachment, poor surfaces and signs not getting replaced - I've seen that happen more than once. New street furniture will be installed in the middle of the path because someone doesn't care enough to stop them. Basically, even if you don't fail now, it'll probably be condemned to a slow lingering death later.

The second problem is that sometimes the "further up someone" doesn't even exist and some people on the initial working group are just second-guessing in case they do. Propose the best solution first and if it gets knocked back, at least you find out if there is a "further up someone" who - in the long term - you need to get rid of. Then alter it to address the objections and try again.

Maybe I've misunderstood. If you proposed the best solution but had to water it down in the interests of getting something rather than nothing on a key route, there's less shame in that and at least we have another cycling capacity-expansion/improvement project ready to go when funding is available.
by mjr
29 Aug 2013, 4:04pm
Forum: On the road
Topic: Crap cyclepaths
Replies: 126
Views: 10563

Re: Crap cyclepaths

Tonyf33 wrote:The red route in MK is just poor all round and both were designed to ensure motorised traffic took precedence in terms of getting from A-B quickly, as a consequence the cycle lanes don't and the residents use their cars as it is far easier. EPIC FAIL :evil:

Citation required, as they say on Wikipedia! What's your source for that?

I used to have some of the original 1960s plans and I'm pretty sure MK's Redways were designed to allow direct routes to/from/between district centres by bike and foot instead of the residential-link-grid-link-centre road journeys. They did indeed do obvious silly things like give way to every road, but by far their biggest failing was that they lacked a good conceptual geographic model, while everyone knew the numbered Vertical and Horizontal grid of the roads.

It was far easier to remember that I needed to follow V4 and turn left when I got to H6 for the city centre than it was to remember that I needed to ride through Galley Hill, Fullers Slade, Two Mile Ash, Loughton and a couple of other districts whose names I forget - and one missing sign meant you probably got lost. Once grid-road-style route numbers and long-distance destinations were added to the signs and a few extra grid-road-paralleling paths were built in the early 1990s, it became a bit easier to find your way, but by then the city was overrun with cars.
by mjr
29 Aug 2013, 1:22pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Sports Direct & Gelert
Replies: 16
Views: 8545

Re: Sports Direct & Gelert

Squeezebox wrote:Nope....still not convinced I will buy anything from Sports Direct, I get everything from Amazon anyway :lol:

Amazon, as well as being one of the poisonous GAS (Google, Amazon, Starbucks) tax-dodgers dragged in front of parliament a while ago, is another zero hours exploiter: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ncome.html

They'll probably be one of the first to whinge about needing to import workers from abroad when things improve and all their staff go work for better companies when they can!
by mjr
29 Aug 2013, 1:16pm
Forum: Campaigning & Public Policy
Topic: Does this reflect well on cycle campaigners?
Replies: 45
Views: 12722

Re: Does this reflect well on cycle campaigners?

hexhome wrote:Just found this whilst checking out the Government's response published today on the 'Get Britain Cycling' inquiry. It refers to the National Planning Policy Framework 2011.

'The Department's technical guidance on designing for residential
developments, Manual for Streets, [...]'

Manual for Streets has about as many teeth as the Local Transport Plans, doesn't it? If the LDF Core Strategy for any area doesn't explicitly cite it, planning officers regard it as merely advisory unless they're already decided to reject something :-(