Cycling UK Forum

polkadotcycling wrote:Hi,

After Moutiers you can pick up the valley road to Bourg St Maurice, then you will have to do a climb to get into Italy. It's the Col de Petit St Bernard.

2 points before the question:

Yes I know it's an old thread but my post is on topic as I'm trying to research the same topic.

2: Don't expect polkadotcycling to reply as on looking at their statistics they only seem to have been active on here for 1-2 days.

So maybe someone else can.

I checked out that bit between Moutiers and Bourg St Maurice online - maps and google streetview for a particular stretch.

What I took to be that "valley road", the N90, appears to go onto a rather nasty bit of dual carriageway with barriers in the middle (either a safety measure or an acknowledgement of/invitation to fast driving) and then a downright alarming tunnel - tight single lane each way, no barrier in the middle.

Does anyone know this route? Any opinions?

Looking closer on a paper map, there does appear to be a smaller road to the south of that N90 road. Maybe with a fair bit of climbing - anyone been on that?

If this route is unsuitable, anyone got another suggested way of crossing from France to Italy on a fully loaded tourer under pedal power?

http://www.campingspares.co.uk/acatalog ... parts.html

Answering my own question - maybe here. Some of their prices seem decent, some less so.

No, the only pre-bent sections with the Vango are the gothic arches.

The "same order dictat" is here under assembling sections - the alloy bit.

http://www.campingspares.co.uk/acatalog/Faqs.html

I have two Coleman tents and they use rather a lot of pre-bent sections.

This might be a good idea initially (the poles do seem to bend and flex nicely which seems good) but what the hell do you do if one of those should break?

Avior X3 arrived.

It's been test erected on my lawn - not sure if I will be able to camp in this year, though after my experiences with Vango probably best to try to get some use/test out of it.

Initial thoughts in no particular order , and it would be particularly interesting to hear by al_yrpal's response as he appears to be an expert on it.

Please note that mine is apparently the 2008 model though I was informed by the retailer (see above) that it is pretty much the same as the current one.

@ Impressed by the general size of it.

@ Somewhat mystifying diagramatical erections instructions but think I did it right.

@ Like the fact that it only uses two poles rather than 3 which you might get on a tent of this size.

@ Like the fact that it has that common Coleman design of being lower at one end - seems sensible.

@ Curious arrangement (which I was aware of from online posts) whereby one end of each pole does not go into an eyelet-strenghthened hole on a strap but into a special sleeve. Slight concern about what might happen if this sleeve gets damaged at the bottom, releasing all of the tension/anchoring in the pole. Surely this wll be harder to repair, especially on site? No idea why they use this system. Also with regard to the issue detailed below where the outer fly seems a bit high off the ground at the door side, this design means that I can't move the fly at all on the arched pole.

@Porch smaller than I would have hoped but maybe I've been spoiled by that aspect at least of the Vango Spirit 200+ . I was really looking for horizontal rather than vertical space here for my endless faffing amongst plastic bags. Can doubtless work with it though and there is penty of room for other luggage in the tent with me - it will only be used solo.

@ Hell it's a curious even ugly looking thing from the front/big end. Like the back end of a bus/truck. Though I have a sneaking admiration for designs that don't pander to conventional ideas of loooks. I prefer function.

@ Rather serious concern (maybe unfounded) about the external zip on the big single door down the side. It seems rather lightweight like something you'd get on a light piece of clothing. Nothing like the very strong zip on my old Coleman Cobra. Will have to be careful with pitching so that it is not overstrained I think. And see my concerns below about the tightness of this section.

@ Initially a bit foxed by the pitching - my old Colman Cobra pitches inner first so you peg out the inner quickly then using snap-in buckles quickly fasten the flysheet to it Really neat. With this, it's the flysheet you are pegging for the structure and the inner then clips to that. I initially clipped the inner to the outer before banging pegs in which means you have to be careful not to hit and maybe bust the clip buckles. Then dawned on me that since the inner is non structural you should clip it to the outer after doing all the pegging. I think. The graphic pitching instructions were worse than the worst IKEA instructions.

@ Rather serious concern about the large door - I've tried a little to correct this by fiddling with the pitching but the door flap seems rather high off the ground and, er, is loose. I have tried to tighten this by pulling the two hooped poles further apart but you have to be careful to ensure that they are still straight - doesn't seem a good idea to bend them out of a straight arch. On the other side of the tent which has no door there is a pegging point on this section but none on the door side (though my Cobra had one). I have a concern that water will get in here and over the top of the bathtub inner. Would be particularly interested in al_yrpal's feedback on this point. I have seen your pic here where all seems tight and neat http://www.flickr.com/photos/alyrpal/56 ... otostream/ though two questions - was that produced by putting a lot of force on the dooor zip? - see above re my concerns about that. Also, the pole at the front seems curved out of the vertical arch at the bottom to produce some of this tension. Is that a concern? I know you can get clip fastener things to add anchor points to tents though adding one here might make getting out a tad tricky. Thoughts from other owners welcome.

@Loop for a light is at the head end - seems eminently sensible - unless I've gone mad my Vango Spirit 200 has it at the end where you'd normally put your feet.

@ Quality tent pegs supplied.

Pack size - pack size is a tad shorter than the Vango which is handy as I mount my tents sideways on the rack. The cirmference of the pack is a fair bit more but I don't think that's any issue at all. I've weighed the two packs myself - Avior X3 is 3kg compared to the Vango's 2.95.kg. I'm not going to worry about that.

Initial thoughts very good though I would appreciate thoughts/expertise on my reservations/doubts.

Maps from these folks - some at 1: 150,000.

from Freytag & Berndt.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lombardy-Freize ... 69&sr=8-17

Again I only know the Sardinia one.

A really nice map. It does however have a serious drawback for a cycletourist. It's massive, a pig to open out even inside.

In response to OP, not 1: 100,000, but this is the map series I took the Sardinia map from - 1: 200,000. I only know the Sardinia map.

http://www.reise-know-how.de/landkarte- ... cturer_id=

Better than TCI, I'd say, but not by a lot as still hampered by the limited data availability.

One thing I do like about it (assume others are the same) is the simple shading system it uses to show altitude. Using this and common sense looking at mapped features like rivers you can often have a passably decent idea of how much climbing you might have to do.

There was another map I was thinking of as well - will try and find the info.

Well some good (ish) news.

Vango came back to me via outdoorworlddirect and have said that they are going to "professionally repair" the tent pole sleeve on the flysheet so that apparently I won't be able to tell it from new. They accelerated the process because of oddities with my situation. I'm a bit puzzled as to how this is more economic for them than just swapping the bit out with another Chinese bit rolled off the production line at a rate of knots but there you go. If the repair is that good I'm happy. I had kind of started to lean towards maybe asking for a refund as I still have doubts (understandable I think in the circumstances) about the tent, but these things have a certain momentum and I have been pushing hard. I've also asked them to sort the non-buckling pitching buckles, so more sewing for them.

http://www.outdoorworlddirect.co.uk have been very good with this issue and very responsive and I would definitely recomend them. And no premium rate number - see below - which I think always creates a good impression/gives you the feeling that a company is actually willing to speak to you. It helped I think that I was able to give them a complete pitching history with dates and locations. This wasn't actually much trouble for me since it had been used so little.

A few things Vango owners might be interested in.

http://www.campingspares.co.uk, Vango's sister company, seems to stress that if a pole section breaks it is vital that all the bits are put back together in the same order. While it is clearly important that any gothic arch remains in the centre, I have no idea at all why this might be. When I repaired the first pole, though ignorant of this rule, I definitely put everything back in the same order simply because of the way I did the job, but the latest broken pole was returned to them in bits (it was taken apart to get it out of the sleeve) so hopefully they will just give me an entirely new pole.

Bretonbikes seems to be a bit of expert on poles so maybe he/she has an idea why the pole fairy might be annoyed by sections going back in a different order.

If you need to contact Vango, particularly from a field on your mobile, it might be an idea to scribble this phone number on the tent pitching instructions instead of the premium rate one (followed by inevitable press this for, that for ..) they give. Doesn't create a good impression.

The number: 0141 773 5475 .

I'll definitely be taking at least one spare pole section in future, and a hacksaw blade, and the temporary repair sleeve/splint, and maybe the repair sleeve/splint from another tent.

Interesting reply Andy.

But I wasn't suggesting that folks take the whole book with them.

The pages of the book seem pretty tough plasticised to me.

Suppose it depends how extensive someone's trip is and how many of the individual maps they might need.

all the best anyway - I get the feeling you know Italy very well as a cyclist - all of my cycling in Italy has been in Sardinia.

mattsccm, is that mount (sounds like the Rixen and Kaul thingy) used to hold a Trangia bottle on the underside of the downtube?

If so which size of Trangia bottle are you holding there and are you using a special bottlecage of any sort. I ask because some say average cages in that position don't hold the bottle too well.

I sent an email to Bikebuddy asking about how the MK1 worked and what was left on the bike.

I received this reply from Robert Bearne and congratulate (no irony at all in my comment) him for his straightforwardness/lack of sales hype.

Hi ****,
To place and remove a bottle from the Mk1 it is necessary to remove the two spring connectors rom the cradles -not terribly easy when the whole thing is upside down ie the bottle has to be supported whilst fitting the connectors.
Kind regards Robert Bearne

***

Is it really that difficult? Comments from other Mk1 users who have put it in this position welcome. I will only of course have to make one removal and one replacement operation per day (off at night/back on in the morning).

Wit regard to the issue of leaving a load of metal gubbins fastened to the underside of the bike, no great problem I suppose for me to fit the thing with old inner tube underneath the mounting points and remove it after each trip?

They don't seem to know what they are doing do they?

With regard to Chris's comment above about not understanding the rule about putting extra stuff in bags and the weight issue, I had another look at Easyjet's bike terms - I know that the low-cost airlines are forever changing their rules on all sorts of things.

I find what I've found for ages under "sports equipment" and a bike is classed as sports equipment they say elsewhere:

"Payment of the non-refundable sports equipment fee entitles you to an additional weight allowance of 12kgs and increases your checked in hold baggage allowance to a maximum of 32kgs. A single item cannot weigh more than 32kgs in total."

So, you just get 12kg extra - I once took a bike which with its extra case weighed more than 12kg and in line with this, the extra came out of my normal 20kg allowance - ie: I had 32kg altogether.

BUT then under "bicycles" it now says:


"Bicycles are permitted for carriage provided that specific criteria is met:

• The bicycle must be packaged in a bicycle box or bag
• Only one bicycle per box/bag is permitted
• No other items can be carried in the bicycle box/bag (i.e. clothing)
• The handlebars must be flush with the frame
• Pedals must be removed or flush against the flame

Bicycles with hydraulic suspensions or brake systems will be accepted.

A non-refundable sports equipment fee will be charged. The bicycles are exempt from additional excess baggage charges.



A bicycle can be added at the time of making your booking. Alternatively if you wish to add a bicycle once your booking has been confirmed and your booking was made online at easyJet.com please login to your My easyJet account, locate the required booking and click on 'Add Sports Equipment'.

If your booking was made through our contact centre, at the airport or by a travel agent you can add a bicycle by contacting our Customer Service Team."



My underlining. What the hell does the underlined bit mean when read together with the other quote?

That you can take, for instance, a bike and bag weighing 14kg and effectively take 34kg with no penalty?

I haven't a clue.

No wonder their staff are confused. No wonder innocent cyclists who have been as careful as they could possibly be by getting written advice in advance are caught out.

Many thanks for that RickH. Very good of you.

Am now veering to the bikebuddy as it would seem to hold the bottle closer to the tube and maybe be more secure in such a position than a normal bottle fastened to a mount.

Apoliogies for being stupid but another question/s - the bikebuddy web page isn't the most comprehensive of things.

I clearly need the Mk 1 version as I have no mounts on the bike at all.

When you remove the fuel bottle, does part of the bikebuddy come away with it?
What is left on the bike?
What is the mimimum that you can leave left on the bike when you don't need that third bottle cage? - I will only be using it for fuel during touring and although a basic mount would have to stay would like to avoid having any bottle cage gubbins as such left sitting there to just collect c***p on a bike which I also use as a general run-around in all weathers.

Agree with andymiller about the Touring Club Italiano 1:200,000

The maps aren't super-great but probably the best you will get and as he says they are tough/kind of plasticised.

Sold in sheets for individual Italian regions at something between 6 and 8 euros a pop but unless anyone was sticking to either Sicily or Sardinia, a bad bet economically, especially when you consider some regions like the coastal strip that is Liguria.

Folks would probably be better with this which does the whole country.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Italy-Road-Atla ... 82&sr=8-19

and I'm pretty sure is the same mappping plus has city plans/ Probably about 20 euros in Italy.

The pages aren't that big and don't cover a very big area but you could probably get by with it, just taking the pages you need.

I'd also use it with a decent GPS like the Etrex20 - you can check out the current state of the free openstreetmaps mapping for your chosen area at:

http://bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx

The link from that story is interesting.

http://www.emagin.org/Home.aspx?route={B180F16E-920D-4B1D-838F-DEC57C193A97}

Have we got any bike/horse riders on here?

Would it be a fair assumption that anything you can ride on a horse you could ride on a hybrid with fairly wide tyres? And if a wide horse could get along a route fully loaded panniers are sureley going to be no problem?

The "Rochester to Canterbury" route for instance appears to follow the Pilgrim's Way at least as far as Westwell and I know that that is cycleable. And with regard to the barrier upthread, surely these horse-routes can't be less bike friendly than some Sustrans routes?

Opinions welcomed - over to the horsey set ...

mm, Rixel and Kaul bottlefix looks kind of interesting, particularly as it might keep the mount away from two control wires that run down that bit of tube.

I gather that there are two versions - one fixed and one using the mini click-off mount.

I already have the mini click-off thingy for a route sheet holder which I no longer need, having gone GPS.

Anyone know where I might be able to get this online from UK or from a London bike shop?

I don't understand what BAA has to do with it. Aren't they just the folks responsible for the airport/flogging folk loads of supposedly bargain duty-frees? Unless they are worried about probelms with their carousels.

I flew a bike out with Easyjet a year or two ago and used a Tardis no problems.

http://www.groundeffect.co.nz/product-d ... AR-BAG.htm

It's a soft bag and you have to do a fair bit of disassembly of the bike (but nothing too extreme) and you can pack inside it with protective cardboard/pipe lagging/bubble wrap. It's a dodle to carry. A drag that you have to pay substantial postage for it to come from NZ (and of course its made in China I think) but it's very good.

I've never understood Easyjet's ban of putting clothes in the bag either (though check - regulations change) as last time I used them you effectively pay for all the weight you take anyway - the bike charge just bought you an extra 12kg or so, not a unit bike as it once was. So what difference does it make which bag it's in?

I did see someone forced to go get their bike boxed (somehow they found one at Stansted) but i think they may have been trying to take the bike on raw with just the bars turned, ie not even in a plastic bag. Anyway, Tardis recommended - once used you can fold it to the size of a thickish A4 book and carry it with you. I've even heard of folk burying it ready for their return, though do of course take careful notes on where you put it/GPS mark it and ensure you have batteries.

Easyjet didn't have any FRAGILE stickers - best take your own and some good tape to make sure they stick to the bag properly.