Cycling UK Forum

Well after al_yrpal's recommendation and help and after reading lots of other online reviews, some of them describing weather I'm pretty sure the Vango Spirit 200 would run home crying from, I ordered an Avoir X3 from here:

http://www.outdoorexperience.co.uk/manu ... word=avior

A shade under £80 including P+P.

I spoke to them and they told me it's the 2008/9 model (this date from memory) but said that there was pretty much no difference between this and the latest model. They bought loads back then apparently.

Anyway, knowing the ways of the world and manufacturers' (or accountants') endless "improvement" of products it's even possible that it's more solid than the newer ones.

I may not get to use it in the wild this year but I'll erect it of course and try to report back.

Bike buddy it seems to be, though I'm slightly intrigued by by hubgearfreak's Wilko suggestion (interesting anyway for confirming what I always thought - that lots of bike bottles are over-priced) -

What do you mean by?

>>it comes with flat stainless clamps. i'd recommend shaping these and tightening them up on a frame

Image of it here:

http://www.wilkinsonplus.com/bike-acces ... t/0286542/

Thanks for the rivnut suggestion robgul but I won't be going that way - one of the things I like about this chro-mo hybrid is that things screw directly into the chro-mo of the frame - I've had two rivnuts go on my nice alu Cannondale.

thanks all.

I know this might be classed as a general bike "know-how" question but this seemed likethe best place.

Although I have a nice new shiny (maybe too shiny) tourer I've been using a nice old hybrid as an informal tourer for shorter trips.

All is fine apart from a small issue. It only has two bottle mounts which I prefer to use for water.

I've been using a pannier for the Trangia fuel bottle. A third bottle mount on the underside of the triangle seems to be the preferred place for a Trangia bottle and my dedicated tourer has one. But is there a handy way to add a secure third bottle mount to the hybrid?

Obviously since it's downfacing it needs to be secure. I've used a couple of strap-on/add-on type devices for the extended seat tube on a Dahon but I'm not sure if they would be up to this.

Many thanks - great informative pics.

bretonbikes wrote:Looking at the construction of such poles most appear to come from the same few Chinese factories - you will see that the thin ferrule is held in place by being pushed into the pole section and then four small dimples being bashed into it to grip. Often with new poles you'll see tiny cracks here, and with time those cracks will open so it's worth keeping an eye on them to predict when they are about to go. This is where most failures occur. By definition then the worst poles will be those with lots of joints in order to make a shorter pole - try to avoid such designs. Some poles (like DAC) are now an interference fit rather than dimples and they do seem to last better.

As I say I'm hopeful of the retailer and Vango sorting this, but on the design issues you mention, I have no idea what DAC poles are. A manufacturer?

I was wondering if short section poles may be an issue as I noticed that the new 55cm sections of pole which Vango sent me seemed to flex rather more than the shorter sections used on the tent - the 55cm length of course was cut down to the appropriate length and as I may have noted elsewhere the lengths are not all the same. I rather had the impression that the shorter lengths didn't flex as much and instead transmitted more force to the join between the ferrule and the "outer" of the next pole. In both cases it was this "outer" which broke. The ferrules lived merrily on.

I don't have all of the tent poles in front of me at the moment but yes I did note that many seemed to have the ferrules fastened to the rest of the pole by the "dimples" method. This might be something to do with the fact that the pole metal is colour coded but the ferrule is bog standard silver.

The replacement 55cm sections are completely silver and there are no dimples that I can see where the ferrule joins the rest of the pole - maybe they are interference fit.

I should stress though that I inspected all the poles for damage, saw no cracks or anything, and no ferrules have failed.

Update, and not a nice one I'm afraid.

Sorted the rear pole problem by cutting the new section to length with a Dremel and then smoothing (is it advisable to take a hacksaw on camp?) the end. Went on another trip of what was meant to be four nights. Erected in perfect weather conditions in a single spot on a campsite - it's never been free-camping. On the morning after the third night there was a crack from the front of the tent - pole sheared and the sharp razor then created cut through the sleeve. Only way to then get the stuck pole out was to remove the shock cord (it would be helpful if info on how to do this was in the tent instructions) and take the pole out in bits.

Using the tent for the last night didn't seem like a good idea as it seemed to me that even using the metal repair sleeve and strong tape I had deliberately brought, the pole sleeve would get damaged further and the tent would start to tear itself apart. So abandoned the camp - farmer/camspite owner refunded my last night's money and was as mystified as me - weather calm all the time I and my tent (described as "lightweight, reliable, robust" by Vango) had been there.
.
I couldn't possibly have taken more care putting the tent up - anyone who had watched me would have thought I was manufacturing the thing - poles all pushed through as recommended (ie: not pulled) and I even carefully examined all of the pole sections for signs of wear as I put them together. Cords not overtightened at all. After all the poles were in and the tent was up I virtually caressed the pole sleeves to check that all sections inside were perfectly joined.

So apart from a test pitch before each trip, the tent has been erected 4 times for 9 nights only. Unfit for purpose is the only conclusion it seems to me - at least on the one I was sold. Retail price of this tent is currently £300.

It is now in no state to use.

I have been in touch with outdoorworlddirect (they have been particularly helpful so far so fingers crossed)and Vango - currently hopeful that this will be sorted on the basis that there was something wrong with the manufacture of the particular tent I bought. This would be kind of supported by the fact that whoever put the thing together hadn't even managed to put the rear pitching buckles on properly - they cannot be used as detailed in the tent's pitching instructions and are simply decorative. If Vango is seeking to claim a weight reduction for a future model they may as well take them off.

Will report back when I learn more.

Had to convert your inches!

Yes seems to be compatible - ferrule diameter on Vango spares is 7mm. Length of the ferrule is 38mm and the length of the ferrule on my old Coleman Cobra (never really used as it's a "coffin" design with no luggage space) is the same so I'm guessing yours is. So effectively no great problem with spares at all.

I'll look out for a good deal on an X3 I think, though the X2 now seems far more common.

How much luggage do you use? On my last trip I had 4 panniers - ever had four in the porch yourself?

I didn't ask them if the Avior is being retired as they didn't seem to be the people to ask.

Thanks for confirming that the poles are aluminium with an elastic bungee.

I suppose that though some would claim that the poles have to be exact equivelents due to finely calculated bending parameters or whatever, that it is just a question of establishing the diamater of the section (I know that my Vango Spirit 200 uses 8.5mm diameter) and then ensuring that the ferrule is the same size diameter (maybe effectively defined by the diameter of the main section) and the correct length so that it slots into the next bit far enough to link up properly without causing undue strain on that next bit.

I suppose some of the non-Coleman spares from here might be handy - in addition to pole bits they also sell complete pole kits complete with tension cord and also the bits that screw into the bottom of a Vango pole to secure the shock cord.:

http://www.outdooraction.co.uk/camping- ... pc-301.php

I'd be interested in the spec of the Avior poles with regard to diameter. If you could check this and the ferrule dimensions, I can check the ferrule dimensions on my Vango poles as sold by the bods above.

I must say I like the look of the Avior X3 - hope you don't mind me saying so but it looks kind of ugly in many of the pics I've seen of it but it also looks very practical and potentially excellent value if it's still possible to find one at a good price. The X2 seems easier to find but the porch may be too small for all my junk

I'd be interested in any info you have on specs though.

all the best

Hi y al_yrpal

I checked Coleman's web page (an interesting experience, especially as the "customer service" phone number ended up advising you to email the Netherlands due to a supposedly temporary phone system problem.).

The spares list appeared to show the Avior X3 as having fibreglass poles though the tent's spec seems to say it has aluminium poles.

In order to try to check spares availability before maybe getting an Avior I called Lancashire Sports Repairs in Burnley as listed on the Coleman web page. They were very nice to speak to but said that they didn't send out spare bits of pole - they reckoned that folk often made a mistake and ended up with the wrong bit. Instead they seem to operate a system where you send them the broken pole and they repair the relevant section and send it back. This somewhat involved process costs between £15 and £20 including postage and isn't of course as convenient as sorting yourself.

What actually are the specs for the poles? Can you sort problems yourself? Lancashire Sports Repairs seemed to say that taking the pole sections apart wasn't very easy. (I know it's easy for my Vango as thanks to their wobbly product I've had to do it).

I'd be interested in your expertise.

I stress that I have no issue with Lancashire Sports Repairs - they were good to speak to and helpful.

psmiffy wrote:Ive cycled quite a few times in Italy, Sardinia and Portugal the once - i used the bog standard offerings from Michelin - I cant remember cycling on or discovering any roads that did not exist

By that I assume you mean that you don't remember cycling on any roads that weren't on your map.

There are very definitely loads of cyclable roads in Sardinia that are not on maps - I've cycled them (always risky as you never know if you are going to come to a dead-end/an impassable spot), looked at them from other roads when on my bike, looked at them out of car windows. Navigating is always a gamble/a matter of trying to read the mind of the map-maker. There must be thousands of these roads.

Your views on this below, from escouts, al_yrpal?

read down to comment from MikeIOW

http://www.escouts.org.uk/forum/threads ... -kit/page2

I'm not overly surprised that it is no longer "current" as availability seems restricted, but if Coleman can no longer supply poles, or rig something from their other bits, it makes them seem very bad at basic support. It would put me off buying any of their tents, however good value they might seem initially.

Interested in yours and any other's views.

al_yrpal wrote:Coleman Avior x2 or x3. See pics on pictures of my tent thread. Better design than the Vangos or lasers , well made and cheap as chips.

Al

Interesting - I have a Coleman Cobra which I bought ages ago but have never used much as I eventually realised that I needed room to store my panniers etc.

But what seems very sensible about some of their designs is the significantly reduced height at one end. I'm kind of thinking this means less material/weight and maybe more strength/wind resistance with no loss of useful space.* After all, how much room do my feet need? What I need is comfotable space with a bit of nigh-time wriggle room plus space for all the junk inside.

* Folks feel free to criticise my logic/Coleman designs/quality

Tacascarow wrote:I doubt many of the tents produced now, regardless of price, will have it's longevity or reliability.

IMHO ultra light tents are a little like ultra light bikes.
The technology used is geared more towards performance than longevity.

Interesting opinion - as someone who has been having problems with a Vango Spirit 200+ (list price £300 - Vango maybe not the company you and I remember from our youth) and someone who thinks really lightweight bikes and components are essentially for racers or poseur racers, I'd be interested in what you consider to be a good tough roomy tent for cycle touring - though without dogs. The Vango Spirit 200+ is a compact pack and light for its erected size but I could stand carrying a slightly bigger pack and a bit more weight for something more dependable (and maybe a lot cheaper)

iviehoff is spot on I think and his/hers explanation about the official mapping probably explains why all the maps I have seen of Sardinia were pretty much equally appalling. There too the best map proved to be German! For a fair while that didn't seem to be available to the Sards - someone I know, tipped off by me, bought one when they were in Berlin.

Openstreetmaps is very limited in Sardinia but in those areas where you do find it it is already significantly better than any map you can buy.

I'd also agree with the take on Stamfords.

Interesting factoid about Portugal - sometimes wondered whether it might be good for a cycle tour - that factoid makes it seem like relatively unexplored territory on our doorstep.

+1 for the Ortleib panniers.

They may seem expensive but are well worth it and as the bod above says they can be used for other things. I bought some ages ago (12 years?) and as I'm a non car driver they must have paid for themselves many times over by allowing me to pedal off to the market/cheaper shops for food etc. They are brilliant.