Search found 3657 matches

by axel_knutt
26 Jan 2007, 5:24pm
Forum: Campaigning & Public Policy
Topic: Helmets
Replies: 198
Views: 31712

Zanda wrote: As technology is applied to road-use, does the level of threat within the system balance out, absorbing new ‘safety benefits’ through social feedback and modified expectations?


This is precisely Adams' point, the benefits of safety devices will tend to be taken as improvements in performance rather than improvement in safety. (Rather like improvements in productivity get consumed as increased wealth, rather than reduced working hours.) Adams argues that you improve safety by persuading people to reduce their tolerance of risk. This would amount to a readjustment of 'B' in my feedback analogy.

That said, Adams starts his book by looking at the way all risk management manuals are written on the premise that it is both possible and desirable to eliminate risk. It is neither, and here's why:

Risk is just another name for uncertainty, but one persons decision of free will is another's uncertainty. No risk means no free will. The further you get toward eliminating risk, the more it will be resisted. Each person has their own tolerance to risk, and expectations of free will, and thus spends their entire life trying to rearrange the world such that reality conforms to their expectations. But it never does of course, because everybody's expectations are different.

Horizon: Adams also defines four basic positions from which people contribute to a risk debate. They are each debating rationally, but from a different premise or world view, hence the debate continues in perpetuity without ever being resolved. This is what Adams refers to as plural rationalities. He also explains the way people falsely believe that science will resolve the problem. Each side commissions more and more research, and throws more and more data at one another in the mistaken belief that it will make a difference. It won't. It never will.

The real solution to the risk debate lies in learning to accept these facts, and learning to live with risk.

For anybody who is interested, there's another good book on risk: Reckoning with Risk by Gerd Gigerenzer.
Like Adams, it is a book about risk in general, but with yet another perspective. Gigerenzer is a psychology professor who specialises in ways to communcate risk and statistics such that people will best understand them. He covers a variety of subjects from court evidence to medical decisions to fun examples such as the Monty Hall problem. Particularly damning is his analysis of the way many women are needlessly mutlilated by mastectomies, because oncologists don't understand the breast cancer statistics themselves, let alone how to communicate them to others.
by axel_knutt
26 Jan 2007, 4:40pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: A Mystery Clicking noise while riding
Replies: 14
Views: 2509

Are you sure it's not you? I had a curious clicking, but only realised it was my knee when I still heard it after I changed the bike. :D
by axel_knutt
26 Jan 2007, 4:21pm
Forum: Campaigning & Public Policy
Topic: Helmets
Replies: 198
Views: 31712

It's difficult to be sure what Fonant means by "a problem". Fatalites have gone down from 7400 p.a. in 1930 to around 3500 p.a. at present. As Smeeds law states, this is because of the increased traffic density. Hence the actual problem has declined because people's perception is that the problem has increased.

(Fonant, integrators and differentiators are examples of time dependent elements.)
by axel_knutt
24 Jan 2007, 4:29pm
Forum: Does anyone know … ?
Topic: Cycling the Grand Union Canal from London
Replies: 15
Views: 4203

I've got a guide booklet that British Waterways sent for free with the free permit. It was a year or three ago, so I dunno whether they're still printing them.......
by axel_knutt
24 Jan 2007, 3:33pm
Forum: Campaigning & Public Policy
Topic: Helmets
Replies: 198
Views: 31712

thirdcrank wrote:Whatever the tendency within the population, the issue for the individual is "If I adopt this, will it increase my safety?"


That's the Prisoner's Dilemma that I referred to earlier....
by axel_knutt
24 Jan 2007, 3:25pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: Complies with RVLR
Replies: 39
Views: 9459

Oh well, what did I expect..........


Dear Axel

I am afraid that this matter is not one for Trading Standards. We have
no powers to act. You were quite right to complain to the police and I
can only suggest that you persevere with them.

My apologies if this email appears abrupt but there is really nothing we
can do.

I wish you all the best with your complaint.

Yours Sincerely

Dave Green

Essex Trading Standards


Seconds out, round two:

Dear Mr Green,

You appear to have misunderstood, I had not complained to the police, but I did enquire of the Department for Transport who told me that it was Trading Standards responsibility. Perhaps I too misunderstand. I had been under the impression that deciding whether manufacturers claims are true and legal is precisely Trading Standards function.

Yours etc,
by axel_knutt
23 Jan 2007, 10:52am
Forum: Campaigning & Public Policy
Topic: Helmets
Replies: 198
Views: 31712

drossall wrote:I am not sure however that any of this addresses the issue of whether there is actually no overall benefit - ie how big is the feedback fraction and are we near the threshold.


I wasn't suggesting that this analysis necessarily serves as a predictor of whether a particular safety measure will prove beneficial in any particular instance, but as an insight as to why there's no benefit if there's no benefit.
I think it shows good reason to suppose that if you've been piling on safety measures for a number of years and seen little or no improvement, that further measures will also be unproductive. For example I mentioned previously that total accidental deaths had shown no general decline. (Researched worldwide for the 20th century, and in the UK since the 13th century.)

It seems to me that there is no particular reason to believe that measures cannot be effective.

They can be, but that's not to say they necessarily will be.

I argued previously that seat belts are effective (although they have side-effects).

The UK DfT acknowledged that Adams' research was correct before parliament introduced the legislation. It's Adams' contention that of 85 countries that have introduced compulsory belts, it is only Britain that is ever held up as evidence that they work. He then demonstrates that the drop in fatalities that's credited to the belt law is actually attributable to a purge on drink driving offences.

I have not seen evidence to support the argument that ineffectiveness is inherent to safety measures, as opposed to a feature of specific measures.

My point with the feedback argument was that on the assumption that you don't deny that feedback exists, there must come a point where there's no futher improvement.

The consequence of accepting such an argument would appear to be a laissez-faire attitude that would be quite alarming.

This would be the "What's Bad is False" fallacy. (See Bad Thoughts by Jamie Whyte.) It's touching on the dilemma I mentioned earlier about transparency. Do we use risk compensation as a tool for the informed minority, or educate the public and risk a rise in fatalities.
by axel_knutt
22 Jan 2007, 5:11pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Cycling Proficiency Certificate
Replies: 14
Views: 6026

Dunno whether I've still got mine, but I still squirm with embarrassment when I think about how long it spent framed and hung on the wall!! :oops: :oops:
by axel_knutt
22 Jan 2007, 4:26pm
Forum: Campaigning & Public Policy
Topic: Helmets
Replies: 198
Views: 31712

drossall wrote:What's more, the argument that safety measures don't improve safety has a corollary. Logically, making things dangerous won't make things riskier either. I'm really struggling with that one...


Most people’s world view is of a system or systems which may have safety devices into which we put actions and out of which we get consequences, and that more safety devices lead to safer consequences. Adams’ argument is that most people observe (or anticipate) the consequences and modify their actions as a result. Risk compensation forms a continuous loop known as a feedback loop. Towards the end of his book, Adams argues that attempts to analyse the system (by computer model, for example) will tend to be frustrated, because when people see the result of the analysis, the change in their behaviour will effectively modify the data that was put into the computer at the outset. In saying this, Adams is to some extent forgetting his own argument in that he’s attempting to analyse the system in isolation from the feedback. To make any further progress, the system needs to be analysed as a complete loop.

Adams is a geographer not an engineer, so may be unaware that feedback loops are ubiquitous in engineering. Looking at risk compensation through the eyes of an engineer, I think that the maths used for feedback loops not only provides more evidence that Adams is right about risk compensation, but offers some new perspectives too.

The first conclusion is that if you were to increase the (number or effectiveness of) safety devices without limit, there comes a threshold above which you get no further improvement. Furthermore the position of the threshold is set by the nature of the feedback (people, in this case). A feedback system that is more tolerant of risk leads to more risk, one that is less tolerant leads to more safety. All independently of the number of safety devices. However, if the system were below the threshold mentioned above, then a change in safety devices would indeed result in a corresponding change in safety.

Now to answer your objection, consider a system which is at or near the threshold. You will find that increases in safety devices produce progressively diminishing improvements, whereas a reduction in safety devices will provide reductions in safety which become more exaggerated the further you go.

To push the analysis one step further, we can consider what happens when a system contains time dependent devices, which in practice all real systems do. What I mean by time dependence is time delays, or parameters whose magnitude depends on the rate of change of other parameters. The simplest example of time dependence might be an instance where you make a change, and the effects of that change only accumulate slowly.

There is, however, a less benign effect of time dependence too. Even a very slight change in the parameters can lead to a system which oscillates to and fro before reaching a stable equilibrium, or in extremis, a system which oscillates indefinitely, and never settles. This sort of effect might be induced by reacting too much or too quickly, for example.

The final effect I wanted to mention is random fluctuations. The world is full of randomness that thwarts our attempts to understand it, and whilst feedback doesn’t cause random changes, it can have a marked effect on them. Again depending on the parameters, feedback might act to reduce the random fluctuations, making the system more stable and benign. But it can also do the complete opposite, making fluctuations even more erratic and extreme than they already were. Just to confuse the issue even more, the same system with the same parameters can reduce variations that occur slowly, whilst exaggerating any rapidly changing ones.

drossall wrote: If it helps, I'm a physicist, if not a practising one, so I may be able to follow you



I'm not sure how much feedback a physicist might have done, so I left the wording as above for the benefit of others. The expression for a negative feedback loop is:

G=A/(1+AB)

A is the gain of a system without feedback this would be analogous to the amount of additional safety introduced by the safety devices. Large A corresponds to more effective safety devices.
B is the feedback fraction, the proportion of the system output that is fed back to the input. This would be analogous to the psychological processes in the brain. Large B corresponds to large tolerance of risk.
G is the gain of the system with feedback applied.

The product AB is known as the loop gain. When it is very much less than one, the expression just reduces to G=A and so increases in A result in corresponding increases in G. But when AB>>1 then the expression reduces to G= 1/B!! In other words, as you increase A you reach a point where G becomes completely independent of any further change in A, and dependent only on B.
If AB=1 then you quickly run out of benefit from increases in A, but quickly reap disbenefit from reductions in A.
Note also that less feedback produces more safety.

(It occurs to me that Adams may well have been aware of all this, but chose to leave it out of the book.)
by axel_knutt
20 Jan 2007, 3:53pm
Forum: Campaigning & Public Policy
Topic: Helmets
Replies: 198
Views: 31712

Adams disentangled the drink drive figures from the seat belt stats, that's how he debunked the final report still arguing that seatbelts make an improvement. I'm surprised he didn't try plotting vehicle deaths separate from cycle/pedestrians. I suspect a rise in one was cancelling out a fall in the other. A separate plot would have shown this clearly, the same way he separated out the plot for motorcycle helmets.

"What's more, the argument that safety measures don't improve safety has a corollary. Logically, making things dangerous, even, say, by failing to repair a badly-damaged surface or removing a pedestrian crossing, won't make things riskier either. I'm really struggling with that one..."

I thought this was a good point at first, but not after some consideration. I think I can show that increasing safety devices will give successively diminishing benefits (a law of diminishing returns), and therefore reducing safety devices will give progressively increasing disbenefits. I spent a couple of hours and about five pages drafting out my argument last night, but I'm struggling to make it in language that a non-engineer will follow. I'll come back when I've thunk some more....
by axel_knutt
20 Jan 2007, 3:37pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Only obeying orders...
Replies: 5
Views: 2218

Only obeying orders...

Did you hear the bit on the radio about the woman who was found driving on the railway line because her sat nav had told her to turn left at the level crossing! :D :D
by axel_knutt
20 Jan 2007, 3:26pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: rear view mirrors
Replies: 31
Views: 4732

I'd like a mirror too, I have poor mobility in my neck, but I don't know where I'd fit it with bar end shifters. I'd been contemplating a spex mounted one, but now I've got the spex I can't see me wearing them to cycle in very often...
by axel_knutt
19 Jan 2007, 3:59pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: Complies with RVLR
Replies: 39
Views: 9459

David wrote:Some LED based lights only appear to be on permanently. They flash very quickly and give the appearance of being on continuously. This is because you can get more light out of an LED if you drive it at higher current, however the more current you push through it, the shorter the time it can carry that current before it burns out so you need to turn it on and then off then let it rest for a bit before repeating.


It's called switched mode regulation.

Ideally LEDs would be driven directly from a battery having the same voltage as you want on the LED. However, this is not possible because unlike a bulb, the current does not increase (almost) linearly with voltage. On a LED the current is proportional to the difference between the battery voltage and a threshold internal to the LED (usually about 1.7V, or 3.4V if the device contains two LEDs internally). This means that a tiny change in battery voltage around the threshold would cause a huge change in current. Furthermore, the threshold is temperature dependent.

To overcome this, the current is most simply stabilised by using a battery voltage much greater than the LED voltage, and controlling the current with a series resistor. But this is very inefficient, you may be wasting up to half your battery warming the resistor!! This disavantage applies to any linear regulator, not just driving LEDs.

The solution, as you say is to switch the supply on and off very fast. Since the device switching the supply is either on or off but not half and half it dissipates very little power, and hence the efficiency is very much better. (Perhaps 95% as opposed to 50%) The mean temperature of the LED will be determined by the mean current in it, which in turn is equal to the peak current multiplied by the duty cycle of the switching waveform. Provided that the switching frequency is is high enough, the thermal inertia of the LED smooths the peak temperature to a level close to the mean, an the LED survives without going phutt.
by axel_knutt
19 Jan 2007, 3:38pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: Complies with RVLR
Replies: 39
Views: 9459

Mick F wrote:A small point:
If a lamp is on more time than it's off, it's 'occulting'.
Mick F. Cornwall


I think you mean occluding, the occult is to do with witchcraft! :wink:

By now people might have gathered that there's more than a little mischief in my motives. I'm not about picking on Zyro or Cateye in particular, but I did have in mind writing to my MP, and having a whinge about the confusing shambles that currently passes for cycle lamp legislation. The more confusion, contradiction and buck passing that goes on in the mean time the better!
I addressed my letter to Consumer Direct, because I thought that that was the new name for Trading Standards. Evidently not. I've had a reply saying that it's not their job to answer, and that they've passed it on to Essex Trading Standards.
Any guesses who the next Buck Passee will be? First prize is a copy of SI2559. Second prize is two copies. :lol:
by axel_knutt
18 Jan 2007, 4:00pm
Forum: Campaigning & Public Policy
Topic: Jon Snow
Replies: 16
Views: 4170

Did you notice that when JS presented the program on the healthcare lottery he was seen arriving to each of his interviews on a bike....