Cycling UK Forum

No harm done - my own fault for being a bit too defensive just a very well used opinion and it gets my back up.

I think you're last post clears it up though and really gives the answer I should have expected, in essence much of the gains i'm actually using on my rides are merely in my head and could be achieved without spending money on supplements - whilst they do a job for marathon style rides my 35 miler isn't really enough to warrent their use.

I did however take a bottle of week squash out with me last night on an 18 mile ride and due to the head was drinking more than I would normally and ended up feeling quite ill toward the end guess I need to learn to swirl and spit on the odd occassion

I agree 2500 seems high really and I do go over it (pool night means alcohol and bar food etc) and I work behind a desk all week so have nothing in the way of working day exercise other than a walk to the sandwhich shop for lunch. I know sandwiches are the devil in the eyes of many but it's a choice between a bap or going to Morrisons and coming out with cakes, biscuits and crisps so it's the lesser of two evils i feel

In essence I think if I can find a fat free or similar energy product i'll go for it but more for the placebo effect than anything else - if I can trick my body into pushing that little bit harder without adding calories then it's got to be a good thing

to be honest i've never tried nor considered SRAM although it has always interested me. The double tap thing seems to get good reviews and offers a nice smooth gear transition.

I think i'm going to leave the Allez as it is, it has a good setup really and spending money on it would seem a little daft. Short of upgrading the breakes and fitting a new saddle and good pedals i'll be leaving it alone, well that and some fulcrum racing 5 wheels

I'm thinking more of putting the money toward my dedicated racer - the way i'm thinking is let the allez become a kinda of light tourer (with trailer) and winter rider and spend the money on a "bling bike" the boule/triple issue will still exist but going for double (in either SRAM or shimano guise) will then let me have 2 bikes to chose from and use whichever is best suited for the ride.

Ayesha wrote:The secret of losing body fat on a bicycle is.....

Riding about 500 kCals worth EVERY day with NO additional nutrition.

That's a ten mile round trip with NO glucose drink, NO gels, NO jelly babies, NO cereal bars, NOTHING extra.

Keep to BMR plus a couple of hundred extra for walking round and doing the vacuuming.

In a week, it should be 1 lb lost.

Just using some only calculators:

apparently to keep to my weight level I require 2562 cals per day
riding for 1 hour based on my height/weight/age removes 840 cals.

I consume roughly 2200 cals per day and ride twice a week for 1 hour and once at 2 hours
so would I be right in saying the following:

weekly intact to maintain weight: 17934cals.
Current intake: 15400cals

balance: 2534cals down

Exercise totals:

3 hour riding: 840cals each
Total: 2520cals burnt

Total of 5054 below maintainance weight

equals around 1.5 lb reduction per week

is that on the right lines?? or am I looking at it too simply

got a few years to go then before reaching ideal weight

tatanab wrote:

Hudson1984 wrote:As much as I repsect the "you don't need it" opinion I think it comes across as a very sweeping statement, most people (with all due respect) have been riding for years and have built up a level of fitness that they have become complacent with meaning the odd 20 miles is therefore meaningless, whereas to start with 20 miles is seen as a bit of a slog.

True. A while ago I met an old clubmate in the pub. He'd had a year or so off riding and was grumbling that he had found the hilly 25 miles to the pub to be hard. I reminded him that to the ordinary man in the street it would be an unbelievable distance.

Most of my riding contemporaries started club riding in their teens, and as we know you can do absolutely anything at that age. I recall 100 plus mile club runs where all I ate all day was a couple of cheese sandwiches (I could not afford anything else as a lad). The idea of special foods etc for anything other than high level racing riders seems very odd to me, but if it works for you (even as a placebo) then it gets you out on your bike so that is good in the long run. 15 years ago I rode coast to coast along the Pyrenees. Expecting a hard time I took enough sports energy bars (High 5 I think they were) to have one almost every day. Did they help? I was convinced they did so therefore they must have, even if only as a placebo.

I guess in essence what i'm actually after is a placebo that's easier on the waistline and teeth

reviving an old thread a touch here but I've used vanish soap bar to good effect.

warm water, elbow grease and you're away! I used to work offshore and it got grease off on one of my T-shirts (not normal grease, this stuff was thick, covering a load bearing cable I think if it can tackle that it can cope with chain lube)

Ayesha wrote:

steady eddy wrote:I dont want to be too brutal on the original poster but a ten mile ride doesnt need carb and electrolyte loaded drinks for fuel or recovery especially at age 27. Its really only a ride to the shops isn't it. You need to ride more - thats how you build up endurance not by stuffing your self full of expensive gels. I am no athelete but at 57 - a 20 mile commute home in the smmer is easily do-able with only water and fueled by the sandwich I had for lunch. For the Norwich 50 on Sunday I included, (regrettably) some orange squash - you quickly tire of the taste - I ate 2 biscuits my companion kindly offered and a small museli bar - I did eat a big tea later in the evening though.

I acknowledge that competing at the level of Ayesha - which I admire immensely, requires a different approach - but dont get sucked in to the benefits of all this advertised and very expensive energy stuff for modest distances. They are not necessary.

I would have to meet OP to assess his physique, current power potential and how much fat he's carrying.

Fluid loss can be calculated/estimated, and I think the major tour riders drink and eat as much as necessary to keep weight. They step on the scales every morning, eat a formulated number of calories and drink an estimated ammount of liquids through the race.

Steady riding, most of one's energy is taken from fat reserves, so eating more than a quarter of the calculated carb burn is not necessary. It does matter what the individual's VO2 max is though. Slow riding with a giant VO2 max needs nowt at all. Fast riding with a miniscule VO2 max will lead to a bonk.

with that in mind is it a good idea to go to a nutritionalist for such advice? I mean if this can all be worked out is it a good idea to get ballpark numbers based on my carried fat etc. As steady suggested the sugar intact could be outweighing the ride itself and that really isn't what i'm going for at all!!!

definately need to lose weight! but would like to do it in an ordered fashion i'm not one for fad diets etc would much prefer to take a long steady approach than jumping into a 5 calorie a day weight dump program

steady eddy wrote:I dont want to be too brutal on the original poster but a ten mile ride doesnt need carb and electrolyte loaded drinks for fuel or recovery especially at age 27. Its really only a ride to the shops isn't it. You need to ride more - thats how you build up endurance not by stuffing your self full of expensive gels. I am no athelete but at 57 - a 20 mile commute home in the smmer is easily do-able with only water and fueled by the sandwich I had for lunch. For the Norwich 50 on Sunday I included, (regrettably) some orange squash - you quickly tire of the taste - I ate 2 biscuits my companion kindly offered and a small museli bar - I did eat a big tea later in the evening though.

I acknowledge that competing at the level of Ayesha - which I admire immensely, requires a different approach - but dont get sucked in to the benefits of all this advertised and very expensive energy stuff for modest distances. They are not necessary.

As much as I repsect the "you don't need it" opinion I think it comes across as a very sweeping statement, most people (with all due respect) have been riding for years and have built up a level of fitness that they have become complacent with meaning the odd 20 miles is therefore meaningless, whereas to start with 20 miles is seen as a bit of a slog.

Whilst I appreciate you can do 20 miles on a bottle of water and your lunchtime sandwich I wouldn't. I agree 10 miles is a bit low for anything too major and I don't take anything expensive on a 10 miler, generally squash my OP gives a rough current gumph on the rubbish I take and when . I ride in general, 18 as a short ride and tend to take 500ml or so of something "expensive" and more if it's further mostly one full bottle on my 35 mile ride

By all means if it's not really required for anything less then fine, but the main reason for asking is to gain better understanding of how to increase my ride times at current fitness level - obviously as fitness improves my distances will also increase along with speed etc and i'm sure with this the need for any type of drink/energy suppliment will eventually get to your stage but i'm not going to abandon taking something with me because you can do 20 miles with nothing.

what i'm saying is surely I benefit by taking something and with some advise can reduce recovery times in order to increase distance? if not then fine I'll leave the energy products well alone and ride with a bottle of squash (sorry will never ride with plain water it makes me ill )

hope that doesn't come across as a moan just hate getting the very typical "i can ride this far with nothing so you don't need it"

Yeah Point well made. I managed to resist last night, and decided to hold off

Whilst I would like to cycle to work being only 2 miles each way, i'm not prepared to risk my bike I think i'll hold off till I can afford a work bike or even just get an old racer and give it a tidy up and use that instead.

But for my main bike I was looking at the abus folding lock thing, really high on their security level thing - expensive but i'm guessing for good reason

i'm really worried about adding salt :S don't know why it just unnerves me! I have too much salt in my diet as it is surely the fancy named stuff they put into drinks is better?? I mean it has a posh name that has to count for something!

Think i'll give torq a bash and maybe look at ayeshas, recovery suggestion. I tried with just water last night and nearly had to pull over to erm...empty my stomach! (not a fan of plain water unless it's abosolutely ice cold) same with squash etc really but the powder drinks seem to not bother me too much.

It's recovery that's my main concern really, as I want to cycle more than my body will allow, and whilst I understand rest is good, I can't handle sitting about 5 days a week, there has to be a limit i.e 3 rides of avg 30 miles per week seems reasonable and my legs will just have to cope

Me again, after yet more advice

locks - now I never bring my Allez to work as bikes tend to get nicked where I work but then the last one wasn't even locked so they kinda asked for trouble really.

I was looking into a kyryptonite modulus system but they don't seem to have great right ups. So was hoping you all could help steer me in the right direction.

I have quick release wheels so would either need 2 D locks or one D and one long cable? or do I replace the axles with something more security concious? ahh choices choices.

Of course I'd like to have a work bike but then I also want a nice racer, a tourer a mountain bike etc etc etc

at the moment the Allez has to be the jack of all trades for me, so for work it will be a rucksack with lunch, shoes and change of shirt and the lock.

Any advice always welcome - oh and no £150 quid ones lol i'm not really wanting to spend a fortune

the 2010 has eyelits for a rack the 2012 doesn't so whilst I could carry one using P-clips and the suggested seat clamp I think i'm going to go the Trialer route, it seems more practical for my intended use.

I'll only want the small trialer and this has more than enough capacity at 45kg and the weight displacement on the frame seems more suited.

Plus i've got about 20kg off my own body that could be gotten rid of before the tour so the frame can certainly take the weight i'm intending to take

tatanab wrote:

Hudson1984 wrote:Peanut butter on brown toast 1 hour before any ride (1 slice for 20 miles and below 2 slices for above)
Gatorade bottle on ride (500 ml 20 miles and below 1 Litre for above)
After ride is split between either 1 Pint of milk or beans on toast

This shows how very different people can be. This morning I awoke early so left home at 06:00 for 28 miles at an average of 15+mph on a machine weighing 40 pounds. A steady ride with no breakfast other than a mug of tea, no ride drink, no special after ride menu just my usual breakfast of two big slices of wholemeal toast and a cup of tea or two when I got home. On a warm summer's morning this is no problem but in the winter I'd have to have breakfast before leaving home.

SIS "go"

I've been using this for about 10 years for the electrolytes but only in the summer. I mix it a bit on the weak side and a 1.6kg big bottle of powder lasts me about 4 years. The outside of my bottle gets a bit sticky due to the sugar content I suppose.

Ideas change and I date from the days long before "sports foods" and when time trialling we were told "dry is fast". The modern idea is very different. Who is right and who is wrong? Nobody, we are all different. I'd say take a look at opinions but do not believe all you read. A young rider in my club has to have a pint of milk and a banana after riding a 10 mile time trial, I imagine he read about it on a forum

i'd love to bea able to cycle like that but my fitness at the ripe old age of 27 is pathetic! if I didn't take some sort of sugary sports rubbish with me on a ride that long i'm confident of death but that could be down to the placebo effect, either way it does the job.

I guess what i'm trying to get out of this is getting the correct stuff to aid my fitness to enable to push that extra 5/6 miles on a ride rather than taking it slow and building up to longer rides over a number of years.

My interpretation on all of these products is that they help recovery and help you cycle longer, this is key for me getting into shape as I would struggle on a 10 mile ride without something helping in one way or another, just a case of progress I guess - Every little helps and all that

oh and totally agree - I merely ask for opinions and decide based on those opinions would hate to think of a forum as a gospel answer....plus if you ask long enough you tend to get the answer you want anyway lol just a case of keeping asking

I guess it's more for the energy side of things, I've never tried bars or jelly beans for energy just take my energy drink so perhaps coupling with bars and just having a drink to replace fluids is better?

Hot condition drinks sound lovely when it's a day like today but lets face it, English summer can hardly be relied on, i'm just trying to work out a sensible food/drink plan for rides.

currently I have:

Peanut butter on brown toast 1 hour before any ride (1 slice for 20 miles and below 2 slices for above)
Gatorade bottle on ride (500 ml 20 miles and below 1 Litre for above)
After ride is split between either 1 Pint of milk or beans on toast

any changes to that for the better will always interest me. the on ride stuff is more my concern as I do want to be going further and further, so anything that can sustain energy levels or perhaps aid in muscle recovery would be great

Hi all, after yet more advice.

I've been using sports drinks on my rides with very good effect, keeping my carb level up seems to have the desired benefits

trouble is they seem to contain loads of sugar which has got to be a step backwards so been looking at electrolyte style drinks. Anyone got any tips on brands etc was going to get a bottle of SIS "go" £7 including postage is less than the gatorade I currently use.

Just wanting to get the right stuff and make the most out of my riding

cheers