Cycling UK Forum

Brucey wrote:
IME a digital Vernier caliper is good for more like 0.01mm rather than 0.1mm. I've bought cheap ones and expensive ones and they calibrate the same on my testpieces.

Brucey, this was the comment I was trying to qualify,

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:
All you need is a cheap digi verneer and grind a notch to clear the hooked bead, not got round to it yet meself

and I said I didn't know if it mattered for that job or not. I was merely pointing out the limitations of a "cheap" vernier caliper, one of which I am the proud owner.
I don't know if your "cheap" is as cheap as my "cheap" but this is what I bought, purely for adjusting the OLN on Campagnolo large flange hubs and it does a great job.
On the other hand, if accuracy is required, it is useless.




These are photos of a used 5/16" ball bearing being measured in mm and inches. It measured 0.3123" on the micrometer.There is no way that this vernier will measure to an accuracy of 0.01mm but as you say, it probably doesn't matter.

Don't know if it's important for this job but a cheap digi-vernier will usually only measure to an accuracy of 0.1mm (0.004"), a micrometer, using the vernier scale on the barrel, will measure to an accuracy of 0.0001" if your eyesight is good enough.

Many thanks to all contributores to this thread. I have decided to try the Bilt Hamber S50 for this frame. With the included insertion lance it should be both a quality and easy application.
Cheers... Alex

Sorry about that, landsurfer. I thought you were gently pulling my leg.

Hi landsurfer,
My point was, although the wording is ambiguous, what has the chemical stripping and then chrome plating process on the outside of the tubes, done to the inside of the tubes and do the insides now need to be treated for anything in the process that may, in the future, make them deteriorate. The frames are immersed during the process, (where the plating is required,) but I don't think the plating gets to the inside of the tubes... or does it? As for the full process I don't know. It was taken to Ellis Briggs for them to repair some very minor faults and then get chrome plated.
You knew what I meant but I've cleared up the wording anyway.
Plating the inside... It may be the start of a new trend.

Thanks... bonefishblues.
I like the Rustbuster cordless system... but £126???

Hi everyone,

I've recently got my Holdsworth "Cyclone" frame back after being chrome plated and I'm now wondering what long term damage will be caused by the chemical stripping and subsequent plating on the inside of the tubes. This was a frame that had been treated with a rust preventative from new and seems to have avoided any rust damage in the last sixty five years and that's how I'd like it to continue.
I don't know what they used at the factory but this is what's left of the frame decal...



I've read some good and some bad comments on Waxoyl on various forums but nothing specifically after stripping and chrome plating. Any advice would be welcome.
Many thanks... Alex

Hi PAB855,
What do you want from the experience of renovating and rebuilding an old bike? If it's just to make a scrap machine reusable then just put any old bits and pieces on it but if you're doing it just for the pleasure of creating a thing of beauty from a load of scrap iron then it deserves all the time and care that you can lavish on it and during the process you will be drawn into spending some significant costs because you don't want to put rough bits on your work of art.
I build one old bike each year as my major hobby. I actually try to build "works of art" which have their origins in the 1950s/1960s not to ride on a daily basis but rather to use as you would a classic car, pick a lovely summer day and go and show it off. In my opinion, you have to start with a classic frame, a Gillott, Hetchins, Bates, Quinn, Holdsworth or the like from the golden era as it's no use putting all the best equipment on something that would normally have been decked out in lower quality items. Sourcing the parts is a problem. I spend three or four hours, most nights during the winter, searching ebay, trying to collect all the bits together. Each of the last three rebuilds has cost between £1500 - £2000 which may seem a lot but if my hobby was football, what would a season ticket cost and I can get most, if not all of the money back by selling the bike or all the bits separately.
As you progress with this hobby your skills can also develop. Box lining is the latest addition to my builds. I think it came out quite well, to say five years ago I had no skills or experience in this field whatsoever.

Thanks for the reply, colin54. I've missed that bit of information but I always thought that 531 frames were built from a complete set of tubes as you can occasionally see for sale on ebay. The mention of an A & P "A" quality steerer tube has a possible connection with this stamp...



It looks like an "M" and may refer to molybdenum as the tube is a chrome molybdenum one.
I wonder if they used A & P in this crucial part because of the better (after brazing) strength of the A & P tube... if you believe the hype...



Cheers... Alex

Hi Everyone,
I've just got my latest project back after being chrome plated. It's a Holdsworth "Cyclone" c1950 in very good condition ie. virtually rustless. Now it's all stripped and ready for paint I've been examining it for any small defects and noticed a logo stamped into the fork steerer tube. This frame was bought in original condition and was badged and sold as a 531 frame so it surprised me to find this...



pressed into the metal. The Reynolds decal which is original and correct for the year was this...



The fork is original and the numbers are identical...



So what's going on here? How do I find out if the rest of the tube set is 531 or A & P?

Has anyone else come across something like this?

Cheers... Alex

fastpedaller wrote:I understand 2 part lacquer can only used on top of water based paint - do you know what your colour paint is?
How did you get the badge back to looking so good? - that's fantastic!

Hi fastpedaller,
Possibly some lacquers are only for water based paints but I use only spirit based paints and have had absolutely no problems. I've bought the paint and lacquer together at two different places and no one has mentioned the fact that it is not for use on the paint I have bought with it.

As for the head badge, this is for my next project, a 1951 WFH "Cyclone", which at the moment is being chrome plated and hopefully will be done by the time I return to the UK. It is exactly the same head badge as on the green "Tornado" pictured earlier, but now sold, so in effect I had a trial run with this one.
First of all you have to, very carefully, get back to the raised brass surface, without touching the black background.


Then put on the paint without being too careful around the edges. Now comes the difficult bit. You've got to get the paint surface smooth and even without touching the background or the raised brass bits. You can see I've just taken too much paint off near to the horse's back hoof. It's more difficult than doing the frame. I reckoned I spent about ten hours on the first one, starting over again about three times before I got a decent result. This one is better.
Glad you liked it.... Cheers... Alex

Paul_T wrote:I agree with Canuk - very nice indeed and you have me interested. I remember re-spraying my Holdsworth Equipe, many, many years ago and the finish wasn't very robust and scratched easly whereas my first Holdsworth Mistral (bent in 3 places and scrapped) was professionally painted and that lasted a lot longer - what paint products did you use for yours?

Hi Paul,
Many thanks for the kind words. I found the hardest part of repainting my first frame was deciding to do it. The Holdsworth frame was in a pretty sad state as the photo shows.

Instead of starting on this frame, I bought a cheap Claud Butler frame (£25) to practice on and to use as a prototype for the later Holdsworth.

This was the result.

When I came to paint the WFH I dropped the gold seat tube band and just used the multiple fine bands. I thought it looked better. The paint is Aston Martin Buckinghamshire Green and the clear lacquer was bought from Halfords, but I can't remember which one. I've since moved on to a two part lacquer but it is more expensive and must be used, once started, in a few hours. You will also need Kurust, epoxy primer, undercoat and various emery grade strips as well as a means of stripping the frame. Since Halfords stopped mixing the car paints, I use the local car paint suppliers, but don't buy the water based stuff.

The Bates is a metallic rose colour but the photos don't do it justice. In the flesh it's a real head turner.
If you have the time, and a little money, do your frame as a winter project. Strip it and then decide on any alterations or repairs, kill any rust spots and get it covered with epoxy primer. Then decide on the colour and decoration you want, lug lining?, box lining?, special decals?, contrasting panels?
Remember, this is for yourself, possibly your favourite frame, be bold, be adventurous, you will never know what skills you possess until you try. The Bates was my first attempt at box lining and my hands shook so much with nerves I had to leave it alone for a while before resuming. The problem will come after you've finished the rebuild. You'll be so proud of what you've achieved that you wont want to get it wet so you'll only take it out on sunny summer days, when it looks great.
Sometimes it doesn't finish with the frame. The WFH head badge needed a makeover as well.


Enjoy the experience. Take your time. Revel in the result.
Kind Regards... Alex

Hi Paul,
Why not DIY? It's really not that difficult and the finished job can be equal or even better than the paint shop job. Coloured bands (usually on the seat tube) are no problem, just mask them up before the rest gets painted. I painted my Holdsworth a couple of years ago and I've just finished a Bates.
Cheers... Alex

I have an old Polar heart monitor that I used to use when marathon running which I now wear when riding the bike as well as the fitted Cat Eye. I find it handy because you can record lap times with a snap shot of your HR plus the time taken to climb your biggest challenge. Of course any stop watch would do but I just had this one from my running days. You only need to remember to stop the watch at the finish. The difference between the trip time on the Cat Eye and the total time on the Polar is the time I've wasted cleaning my glasses or adjusting my bits and pieces whilst I'm really trying to stave off my seemingly imminent demise. My Cat Eye is usually used in trip distance mode and very rarely changed.

JohnW wrote:
If you find any orange ones - tell me

Hi John, just like you said in the earlier post, I don't remember any orange ones either.

Cheers...