Cycling UK Forum

mattheus wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 3:04pm Your exact words:

Psamathe wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 1:00pm ...Starmer made a big issue about the Johnson Wallpaper funding trying to present himself as not subject to such "sleeze" (just do a Google search "starmer johnson wallpaper").
...

Made worse as Starmer was previously very critical of such gifts and claiming he'd be cleaning-up politics.
...

And you're far from the only one doing this.

It is disingenuous (or even dishonest) to comment on Starmer pretending that you have some purity agenda, whilst so many pundits <cough BBC> are shouting "HYPOCRISY" !!!!

Nothing exists in a vacuum, not in politics. Welcome to the real world my friend!

I believe Starmer is not living up to his claims to end sleaze, to clean up politics as he was declaring during the election campaign. Additionally he is breaking the Ministerial Code (as I quoted from above) by accepting gifts from actively lobbying organisations, gifts he was getting just because of his influence over legislation (Premier League weren't offering me Taylor Swift concert tickets). This is a valid concern (despite the way you see "the real world").

Ian

st599_uk wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 2:36pm

Freddie wrote: ↑22 Sep 2024, 8:11pm 1. Shouldn't they enforce them? 2. if they are going to have others use cameras, then shouldn't they give weight to those cameras in the same way as if they had taken those readings, the readings that they themselves don't take.

To be admissable, the device has to have been recently calibrated and used in the correct manner.

So unless the police are calibrating the scanners and giving training in how to use them, they. can't use it.

My brother lives near a village where there is a very active community speed thingy group and he's seen then lift their camera device away when the recognise a local vehicle coming past.

Also, no idea if it's still the case but I understood if caught speeding by the police you could chose to attend court and cross-examine the officer operating the camera. If my understanding is correct (and it may not be as I'm no expert) and it's a Community SpeedWatch then I assume you can would be able to question the CSW team in court and challenge them - at which point all sorts of local vendettas could start to emerge. As I understood it (maybe out of date) that vehicle speeds are detected using a speed gun (not a camera) and registration details written down and passed to police oin a spreadsheet.

Edit: ps I do think speed limits shoudl be enforced and that speeding drivers should be punished. Just that it needs to be an effective system. I'm not arguing for speeding to be permitted not ignored.

Ian

mattheus wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 2:26pm

Psamathe wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 1:07pm

mattheus wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 1:03pm
There you go - you've just made it relevant.

Do you have an answer?

In relation to Starmer (out current PM) claims on the election trail. I'm discussing the behavious of our current Government, if you want to discuss something else then fine but I'm discussing our current Gov.

Discussing previous sleaze in no way changes that of the current incumbents. Something else being worse does not make something now acceptable.

Starmer's campaign claim was ONLY of relevance to the gov at that time. (He obviously wouldn't campaign on cleaning-up politics in a time that MPs were 100% clean!) Therefore your critique is inherently tied to the behaviour of the previous gov.


(I think it's naive to ever expect a completely blameless government, and I agree that it's good to strive towards one.)

Starmer taking gifts from an organisation lobbying for a change to proposed legislation (ie apparent conflict of interest) has nothing to do with sleaze from a previous Government. Previous Governments may have been different - I'm currently just talking about Starmer's acceptance of gifts and apparent conflict of interest.

In addition to his taking gifts from an organisation lobbying for proposed legislation changes he is using smoke and mirrors declaring he wont accept gifts of cloths in future - his wife might and of course he'll still be accepting football tickets, Taylor Swift tickets, Coldplay tickets, etc. (even from organisations creating a potential conflict of interest). He's trying to make out "no gifts" but actually limiting his commitment to the point of irrelevance such that nothing changes.

Ian

Two things:

First Try an experiment:

Create a gpx with

<gpx>
<trk>
<trksek>
1st few points of track, maybe ⅓ of the trsack
</trkseg>
<trkseg>
last few points of track, maybe last thrid
</trkseg>
</trk>
</gpx>

Make sure there are a good number of missing points between the end of 1st trkseg and start of 2nf trkseg. Then in whatever software you are using does the software draw a line between end of 1st trkseg and start of 2nd trkseg? If it does it is "misbehaving".

Also, if trying to put the same gpx track points in twice as a single route then it has to route somehow between the end of one and start of next - it's a single route and doesn't appreciate that you can magically jump from end back to start. A out and back route would have the outgoing points in order then same again but in reverse order to direct you back.

If gpx starts at point 1 and fnishes at point 100 then your gpx route will go 1, 2, 3, ... 98, 99, 100, 1, 2, 3 ... 97, 98, 99, 100 and that route involves a step point 100 to point 1 (which is a long straight line).

Ian

rareposter wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 2:08pm

Psamathe wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 11:15am I don't like climbs but my GPS has recently started giving more info about climbs. Even when not following a route is seems to "watch" the road ahead (or rather look ahead on its mapping) and when it thinks you are about to start a significant climb it pops-up a half'ish screen climb profile with grads, overall, distance, etc.

I was going to say exactly this in answer to the OP - the climb profile stuff on modern GPS units, including things like changes of gradients within the overall climb, how far to go etc is brilliant. Really aids pacing and you can better judge things like when to give it some, when to ease up and recover and so on.

Some GPS units (like Psamathe's) will do this automatically, some (like mine) require a route to be programmed in for it to access that information but most modern GPS will do this now.
...

Mine definitely guesses where you are intending to ride for a distance ahead ie the most direct road as, close to home there is fork in road where closest to straight ahead is what the GPS considers a "Climb" whereas take the right fork and it goes round the hill. When approaching that fork GPS pops-up a "climb profile" expecting you to take the closest to straight on but if you take the right to go round the hill and it very quickly removes the climb pop-up realising you are not going to go up the hill.

Ian

A couple of things (that may not be relevant)

1.<trkseg> is sometimes mis-interpreted by some software. I've reported the misinterpretation to the developers where I've seen it and they have immediately fixed. Problem (where I've seen it) is that in effect the <trkseg>s are ignored and the points are treated as a single continuous track ie track line is drawn from last point of one <trkseg> to 1st point of next <trkseg>

2. Garmin following a route can do weird stuff (or get confused) should you go off route and then cross or follow bits of the route again. eg a circular route and part way you go off-route and Garmin recalculates directions all fine until you cross or rejoin part of the route you've already done and the Garmin can go route found and start directing you round again ie it gets confused about where to pick-up route again. Particularly bad on an out and back route where go off route on way back and then rejoin and Garmin can start directing you out again. (I last saw this several months/versions ago).

Ian

mattheus wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 1:03pm

Psamathe wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 1:00pm

mattheus wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 12:53pm
In terms of gifts/bribes/corruption:
Do you think Johnson was better or worse than other recent PMs?
Do you think Starmer is better or worse than the Con government of 14 years?

Irrelevant. That would just be "whataboutism". We have a Government now with serious questions about gifts/lobbying and conflict of interest.

Made worse as Starmer was previously very critical of such gifts and claiming he'd be cleaning-up politics.

There you go - you've just made it relevant.

Do you have an answer?

In relation to Starmer (out current PM) claims on the election trail. I'm discussing the behavious of our current Government, if you want to discuss something else then fine but I'm discussing our current Gov.

Discussing previous sleaze in no way changes that of the current incumbents. Something else being worse does not make something now acceptable.

You are asking a different question (ie about previous Governments) - try Google?

Ian

mattheus wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 12:53pm

Psamathe wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 12:43pm I'm not prepared to spend my time going back to highlight my many posts over the 10 years. Do it yourself. Similarly I'm currently concerned about the Government we have now - which says nothing about previous Governments.

Starmer made a big issue about the Johnson Wallpaper funding trying to present himself as not subject to such "sleeze" (just do a Google search "starmer johnson wallpaper").

In terms of gifts/bribes/corruption:
Do you think Johnson was better or worse than other recent PMs?
Do you think Starmer is better or worse than the Con government of 14 years?

Irrelevant. That would just be "whataboutism". We have a Government now with serious questions about gifts/lobbying and conflict of interest.

Made worse as Starmer was previously very critical of such gifts and claiming he'd be cleaning-up politics.

Ian

Cowsham wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 12:35pm

Psamathe wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 11:58am

Cowsham wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 11:20am I'd want a £2000 fine for littering which like speeding can be achieved by stationary unmanned cameras. It's the scenic country roads that get littered by a full bag of fast food packaging because the lazy rs olds can't take their litter all the way home. I've seen it happen and given video evidence ( from bike cam ) to police but nothing ever gets done.

(Risking the wrath of Moderators for "thread derailment)
I agree but around my walking and cycling areas most fly-tipping seems done in random ditches and field entrances and you'd need 100% coverage or you'd find the rubbish dropped just behind the cameras. I've always assumed that things fly-tipped (old mattresses, furniture, white goods) wont include anything to trace the previous owner.

I used to go on litter picking walks (taking a pick-up device thingy and a load of carrier bags) but a couple of things stopped me, one was I cleaned a section of road between rural vehicle depot and B-road on a Sunday afternoon and happened to ride it next day afternoon and loads of litter back (polystyrene cups, burger boxes, etc.). Quite why Planning ever allowed the depot in the countryside beggars belief but it also highlighted the cause of much of the little (trades, vans).

Ian

A £2k on the spot fine would help though and the same for speeding.

I suspect a lot of people would be financially unable to pay, claim hardship and get a reduced fine; just like the wealthy avoid driving bans "because my charity work would suffer" or "it's crucial to my job".

I think the French VSP system a good solution. People get banned and they can't claim "charity work" or "don't have the money". They can still drive but many with a petrol head memtality will be forced to drive a VSP for a few years - probably a far worse punishment for them than any fine.

Ian

mattheus wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 12:29pm

Psamathe wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 11:02am

mattheus wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 10:08am
Do you mean the upgrade to a box - for security reasons - at a club where he was already paying for his own season ticket?

Details matter ...

If there is a genuine security issue then state pays for his security, not gifts from an organisation lobbying against legislation Gov. is creating.

Accepting gifts from an organisation lobbying against proposed legislation is quite inappropriate however much it's "declared". Were state to pay for his security then no apparent conflict of interest.

<snipped a bunch of whataboutery on Taylor Swift>

I think this is chicken feed - the State (you and me) would have paid for the extra security. Where is the harm in the PL *openly* funding this?
The history of every western government features this sort of thing, "conflict of interest" or not. Please show me your critique of previous incumbents, prefereably since you joined the forum. If you think any regime is squeaky clean, you need to wake up and open your eyes.

I'm not prepared to spend my time going back to highlight my many posts over the 10 years. Do it yourself. Similarly I'm currently concerned about the Government we have now - which says nothing about previous Governments.

Starmer made a big issue about the Johnson Wallpaper funding trying to present himself as not subject to such "sleeze" (just do a Google search "starmer johnson wallpaper").

The gifts from Premier League may have been declared but all we know is the gift and value, not what influence this might achieve, we have no idea how much Starmer might feel more positive to the Premier League nor their lobbying against legislation Labour were supporting/proposing.

Ministerial Code

https://www.civilservant.org.uk/library/2005-ministerial_code.pdf wrote:Ministers should avoid accepting any gift or hospitality which might, or might reasonably appear to, compromise their judgement or place them under an improper obligation

Yet Starmer seems to think this shouldn't apply to him (after all, it's £100k of gifts he's getting.

Gifts from organisations lobbying against legistation being implemented and the only details we have is the gift and value. Potential for conflict of interest we have no idea about is bringing our politics into disrepute despite Starmer

Starmer on the leaders debate for the 2024 election

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/30/sir-keir-starmers-pledge-to-clean-up-politics-will-come-back-to-mock-him-if-he-doesnt-deliver wrote:Sir Keir’s answer is a promise to “reset” and “clean up” politics to ensure “the highest standards of integrity and honesty”.

And he's still accepting all this gifting, just not if they are clothes for him. everything else (even from companies lobbying Gov.) seems to be considered fine.

Ian

We are seeing how "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" applies
Yesterday:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/22/leader-of-unite-calls-on-labour-to-ditch-fiscal-caution-and-be-visionary wrote:No 10 braced for potential defeat in Labour conference winter fuel vote

Today:

[url]https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/sep/23/rachel-reeves-keir-starmer-labour-conference-latest-politics-news-live?filterKeyEvents=false&page=with:block-66f138ee8f086d347dcb760d#block-66f138ee8f086d347dcb760d[/url] @10:58 wrote:Delegates protest about decision to delay vote on winter fuel payments cut, calling it 'outrage'

Playing politics, avoiding listening to what those who have a say want to say.

Ian

Cowsham wrote: ↑23 Sep 2024, 11:20am I'd want a £2000 fine for littering which like speeding can be achieved by stationary unmanned cameras. It's the scenic country roads that get littered by a full bag of fast food packaging because the lazy rs olds can't take their litter all the way home. I've seen it happen and given video evidence ( from bike cam ) to police but nothing ever gets done.

(Risking the wrath of Moderators for "thread derailment)
I agree but around my walking and cycling areas most fly-tipping seems done in random ditches and field entrances and you'd need 100% coverage or you'd find the rubbish dropped just behind the cameras. I've always assumed that things fly-tipped (old mattresses, furniture, white goods) wont include anything to trace the previous owner.

I used to go on litter picking walks (taking a pick-up device thingy and a load of carrier bags) but a couple of things stopped me, one was I cleaned a section of road between rural vehicle depot and B-road on a Sunday afternoon and happened to ride it next day afternoon and loads of litter back (polystyrene cups, burger boxes, etc.). Quite why Planning ever allowed the depot in the countryside beggars belief but it also highlighted the cause of much of the little (trades, vans).

Ian

Jdsk wrote: ↑11 Sep 2024, 6:26pm

plancashire wrote: ↑11 Sep 2024, 6:22pm ...
I found Mrs Vennells' religious activities hard to fathom. If she believes it all she must be quaking in her boots at the prospect of what awaits at the Pearly Gates. If she doesn't believe it, what's she doing in Church? Maybe it's status signalling: something to add to the CV. What do Churchgoers make of her? Is she still doing religion?

Still an ordained priest in the Church of England. Has voluntarily relinquished clerical duties.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Vennells#Ordination

Jonathan

Interesting contrast how Ms Vennells retains her status in the church whilst

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/sep/21/retired-priest-painful-treatment-church-climate-protests wrote:Retired priest speaks of ‘painful’ treatment by church over her climate protests
The Rev Sue Parfitt has lost right to conduct religious ceremonies after her arrest at a Just Stop Oil demonstration

One might not agree with Just Stop Oil's methods and damage but at least their motivation is the good of the world whereas Ms Vennells motivation was not.

Ian

I'm very unconvinced about the Community Speedwatch scheme - think it's more about the community thinking they are "doing something" than actually achieving something.

The flashy signs alert most drivers to the speed limit and those who ignore the automated signs will ignore speedwatch anyway.

That said, if local groups want to spend their time doing it I've nothing against it, just I'm unconvinced it makes a difference.

They could serve a purpose if Highways were more prepared to listen to local communities in that their collected reports could be used to justify Highways putting in speed limiting measures (eg chicane'y things or speed ramps). But Highways seem unprepared to listen to local communities (my local Parish Council working with their local District Councillor have been trying to get Highways to impose a 20 limit through centre of village past school but after trying for years they've all pretty well given-up after Highways obstinately responded with installing a load of 30 limit signs.

I understand that some who are particularly agravated will stop, go to the speedwatchers and in a calm non-threatening manner say "I am confronting you" at which point the speedwatchers are obliged to pack-up and stop (by their own rules).

Ian

I have no experience of them but they use satellites rather than mobile for emergency messages. Used by some "thru hikers" (remote US long distance hikes).

SPOT devices https://www.findmespot.com/en-gb (look available in UK)

But I must emphasise I have no experience of them so if might be relevant do check details for yourself.

Ian