Cycling UK Forum

Dear All


Is anybody out there going to CTC AGM?

Are you interested in the way the CTC is going?

This may be of interest


http://rileychildrenshospital.com/infor ... skills.jsp


Are they correct, do we think our children are different, or can children learn these skills earlier with the right guidance?

I am Cycling Instructor who teaches children in central and east London.

I have looked up St Mary Bourne in Test Valley, Hants on the map and found that I have cycled passed this school on a number of occasions

Questions

1 Does the school have a school Travels Plan?
2 What is the local accident rate for cyclist?
3 Has the school been subjected to safe routes to school scheme?
4 What is the local accident rate for cyclist?
5 Do any of the teachers of the school cycle?
6 Is there a speeding problem along the local roads?
7 Can the number a cars be reduced on the local roads by traffic measures?
8 Could you set a local school cycling club so that child could go to school as club run?
9 Does the Local Authority run Bikeability /National Standard Cycle Training Courses?
10 Could the school ban cars from its premises and the local authority ban parking near to the school?


These are some ideas to think about, I hope it helps.

Many of the children I work with already ride on London in place like Camdenr and they are age 9

mikestead wrote:Hi all,

Our child's school (St Mary Bourne in Test Valley, Hants) has just enacted the following policy re cycling to school:

"We have been advised by the Road Safety Team at Winchester [Hampshire County Council base] that only children who have completed cycling proficiency and are aged 10 years or above, should be allowed to cycle to school unaccompanied. Any child under 10 must cycle to school with an adult if they wish to leave their bike on school premesis. If your child wishes to cycle to school they will need to apply for a cycle permit for 2008/2009 which can be collected from the school office"

Bear in mind St Mary Bourne is the typical 'sleepy English thatched village'. 95% of school-time traffic is parents themselves.

What mandate do schools have to do this? The head advised me she chose this path because "some people had complained about children riding recklessly in the village". She feels if she provides cycle storage [therefore encouraging cycling] and a child is injured on the way to/from school, she will be culpable. HCC Road Safety Team have apparently advised her as much.

Any suggestions? Help available? Where to I begin to battle this ill-advised scheme?

n.b. I ran the Cycling Proficiency training for the school this year too!

Cheers,

Mike

xpc316e wrote:I am a Road Safety Officer and spend quite a lot of time working with children and their bikes. I often make what I view as common sense safety adjustments to some of their machines before they use them on our courses. My employers take on this is that it is fine to perhaps adjust a saddle for height, but no more, because of liability issues. If I can make a brake work with two minutes tweaking I reckon that it would be senseless not to.

I am pushing to go on a proper course run by an outside agency, so that my running repairs will have some stamp of worthiness. Has anybody else had experience of this problem, how it was resolved, and what establishment you used, if any, to provide the training.

There are numer of courses you could go on, it depend on a number of factors

1 How much you are perpared to pay
2 where do you live
3 how long do want to be on the course
4 how much detail you want to go into

I have been a course at downland cycle in canterbury for 5 days 11 to 5

it cost about 350 and was very good.

http://www.downlandcycles.co.uk/courses.htm


it was better than say than Cycle training UK course in London which if you went on 2 couasesd would take 2 days,

http://www.cycletraining.co.uk/training ... aintenance

on the other hand it was not as good as ATG course in Alyesbury which cost about 1200 but last about 10 days?


http://www.atg-training.co.uk/index.php ... -Text.html

There are other courses , but I have given you a ideas what is around.

If you want a chat about this telephone or email me

If Boris Johnson et al want to promote cycling with hire bikes, it impossible to insist on helmet, every body who wish to carry a helmet on the off chance that they may wish to use the cycle. The public would not wish to use helmets that other person has used. Any other methods of complyance and would be too costly.

NEW MEMBER GROUP CHISWICK -LONDON

A new CTC member group is to be form in Chiswick of London

If you live in the area, come along to the inaugural meeting on

Thursday 8th May 2008 from 7.00 to 8.30/9.00pm

At The George ~and Devonshire Public House,
8 Burlington Lane, Chiswick, London W4 2QE.

Please contact Alex.geen@ctc.org.uk or 01483 238334 if you would like to attend or for more information.

Matthew Parris Apologies


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 123486.ece

horizon wrote:Yes it is semantics, though semantically the 30mph signs tell you that you are in a 30mph zone but the zone is actually created by the street lamps. I wish I could remember where I got hold of this information in order to verify it. As far as I do remember, it was part of the settlement of the speed limit issue in the 1930s - there was no speed limit for a time and then the compromise of the street lamps was settled upon. Given that the 40mph zones still have repeaters on the lamposts, I don't think it has changed. It could be that every zone is now measured and registered making the street lamp rule irrelevant but I don't think that that is the case.

From DFT KNOW YOUR SPEED

30mph Speed Limit
The 30mph speed limit is
predominately used in urban areas
(and more recently in many villages)
and usually is indicated by the
presence of a system of streetlights.
The presence of street lights is the
way we recognise this speed limit and
it is the reason why you do not see,
apart from where the limit starts,
30mph speed limit signs. Some
believe this to be an odd way of
indicating a speed limit, but really it is
simple. If there are streetlights and no
signs to the contrary a 30mph speed
limit is in force.
There are a number of unlit roads
where a 30 mph speed limit applies.
In these circumstances the traffic
authority must place 30 mph
repeater signs.
Department for Transport Speed: Know your limits 11

Will wrote:I remember seeing some figures for a five year period for London and I think the total number of pedestrians killed on the pavement by motor vehicles was 17.

Check out http://www.gmcc.org.uk/main/wp-content/uploads/issue5_200702poth.pdf - it has a couple of tables for pedestrian fatalities involving cycles and motor vehicles between 1998 and 2005.

Will

I did produce a table of ped/cyclist accidents for all of London, the woest/best place to get hit on the pavement was westminster, but that was from none cyclist.

If you want to get by a cyclist you need to go to Bromley for that to happen

bigphil wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6677589.stm

The Metropolitan Police have won a court battle to allow them to ban London's Critical Mass cycle ride.

It seems that if you happen to be near Waterloo bridge in London this Friday with your bike at around 6:30 you will be liable for arrest.

I thought the police would have better things to do than being concerned with a bike ride.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Richard Evans <richard.m.evans@ntlworld.com>
Date: 24-May-2007 19:58
Subject: Auk- FW: Don't be taken for a ride: Critical Mass has NOT been banned
To: Richard Evans <richard.m.evans@ntlworld.com>


The email below is from Ralph Smyth, lawyer and Chair of LCC Policing & Enforcement Working Group, who says "Don't be taken for a ride: Critical Mass has NOT been banned"

It's worth reading if you are thinking of coming along on tomorrow's ride, esp. if you have concerns, this is most reassuring.

I am personally becoming increasingly aware of many many people who do not usually come on this ride (and some who have never been) that are planning to come tomorrow, so it would appear the police, by appealing against our legal victory last year, have become our best recruiting sergeant... tally-ho!

http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk/main.html

-----Original Message-----
From Ralph Smyth
Sent: 24 May 2007 18:02

Reports have gone round that Critical Mass has now been "banned". Nothing
could be further from the truth.

There is no power to ban processions unless they are likely to result in
serious public disorder or various other very serious consequences. Critical
Mass never come anywhere near this threshold, indeed the evidence from the
police's Inspector stated: "If Critical Mass continues in its present form
with current levels of seasonally adjusted policing, I consider that it poses
a minor inconvenience to the public as a whole".

Unless the police do issue a formal order banning Critical Mass in such
circumstances then it is not an offence to take part. Yet the police leaflet
handed out to participants on 29 September 2005 stated:
"These cycle protests are not lawful because no organiser has provided police
with the necessary notification. Your participation in this event could
render you liable to prosecution."

However Leveson LJ stated at para 17 that:
"As to illegality, the Divisional Court rightly observed that the cycle rides
were not, at any time, in themselves unlawful. The section did no more than
create a series of criminal offences committed by those who, without giving
notice, _organised a procession_ that falls within section 11(1)." (emphasis
added)

The Court of Appeal ('CoA') has in fact confirmed by the above that this
statement by the police was wrong. However as the claim was a "friendly
action" to clarify the law, no formal declaration was made stating that the
police leaflet was unlawful at the end of the hearing (para 36). In these
circumstances I would go so far as saying that it is inaccurate to describe
the CoA's decision as a defeat.

Their Lordships did have difficulty accepting that the Critical Mass route was
merely "devised by those who, whether by accident or design, simply happen to
be at the front when the ride starts and are able to take the cyclists where
they want for reasons devised by them and not necessarily shared with others"
(per Leveson LJ at para 31).

However as this was a judicial review, a legal challenge conducted on paper
(i.e. with statements) they did not have the benefit of live evidence (i.e.
witnesses) let alone video footage which of course a criminal trial would be
full of. So they had to "hedge their bets" and work out what the legal
consequences would be if the ride was organised or was simply disorganised.

The key passage in the judgment was in para 35 when Leveson LJ stated:
"it may be that the evidence adduced in this case will serve to demonstrate
the forensic difficulties that would stand in the way of establishing the
identity of an organiser (of the procession rather than the gathering)"
In other words telling the police and the CPS that it would be extremely
difficult for them to pass the evidential test - that on the evidence a
conviction is more likely than not - which is the first precondition to a
decision to prosecute.

Here it is worth emphasising Potter LJ opined that "the rides involve a wide
variety of different routes dependent entirely upon the whim of whoever
happens to be at the front of the procession of cyclists" (at para 71) which
suggests he did not think it was "organised" either.

The second requirement before prosecuting is the public interest test - a
prosecution must be in the public interest. Leveson LJ continued in para 35
after saying that it would be extremely difficult to prosecute by saying
that "I, for my part, would not be unhappy if that were the outcome". Wall
LJ goes as far as saying that "the consequences are potentially oppressive"
(para 59). In other words these CoA judges think that prosecutions are
neither possible nor in the public interest.

You can check the law at:
http://tinyurl.com/227zx5
(Public Order Act 1986 as amended)

Or the full transcript of judgment at:
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2007/477.html

The dissent of Wall LJ is where it gets interesting. He notes at para 44
that:
"If it is of the essence of a procession that it has an identified route, and
if the CMCR has no route (save in the sense that it moves randomly from a
fixed starting point to an undetermined point or points where the cyclists
disperse) is it a procession at all?"
Something makes me think that this is the only one of the three judges that
has actually had the benefit of seeing a Mass...

POSTSCRIPT
So supposing some members of the Metropolitan Police Service are still hell
bent on prosecuting some cyclists for organising Critical Mass, how do you
avoid being arrested? It seems clear that the judges accepted that there was
no real organising of the procession simply following of random movements of
whoever happened to be at the front.

While this would make a conviction difficult, it does not hinder an arrest for
which only reasonable suspicion is needed and spending much of the mass at
the front could potentially count.

Were somebody to be charged with organising CM then the decision to prosecute
could in itself be judicially reviewed. Whatever the type of legal case,
this would simply gather as much publicity for CM as it would waste
taxpayers' money which could be better spent instead on prosecuting some of
the many drivers who get off killing, injuring and threatening other road
users.

The consequence of this legal appeal by the Met is likely to make the Mass
more chaotic than ever as people try to avoid staying at the front or split
off into smaller groups to avoid the gaze of the police.

Indeed perhaps for me the most stupid thing is that those at greatest risk of
arrest are those who are being most helpful. I for one have tried to get the
Mass to move off when it decides to stop and faff - "we are traffic" after
all. That said anyone so doing could rely on the defence of trying to prevent
the offence of obstruction, making successful prosecution for "organising" CM
even harder

Happy Massing,

Ralph Smyth
Chair of LCC Policing & Enforcement Working Group
(email written in a personal capacity)

NB The above email is merely general commentary on the law, if you require
legal advice about a specific matter you are strongly advised to instruct a
lawyer

dave holladay wrote:Does anyone recall how groups are/were taken through/across at Dartford and dates. After the buses were discontinued ISTR that groups were escorted as peloton with a barrier vehicle (van/landrover) at front & rear.

Please reply by pm or e-mail

See below from the crossing website

Q. What provision is there for cyclists to use the Crossing?

A. Cyclists are prohibited from riding across the bridge or through the tunnels. However the Crossing staff will be pleased to arrange for cyclists to be transported from one side to the other.

Northbound cyclists should follow the cycle paths provided to the sign "Cyclists Wait here".

From this point forward free transport will be provided to carry you and your bike through the Tunnels. Southbound cyclists should dismount at the Essex Control building and wait for free transfer across the QE2 Bridge. A free call telephone is provided should this point be unattended.

If you are riding a tandem or travelling as a group e.g. a cycle club it is advisable to make prior arrangements by contacting the Crossing. The transfer should take between 15 - 30 minutes. Contact details

Contact00000
The Dartford - Thurrock River Crossing
Contact Le Crossing
For general enquiries please email: admin@dartfordrivercrossing.co.uk

or call 01322 221603

0830am -17.00pm Monday to Friday

For all enquires relating to DART - Tag please email: dart-tag@dartfordrivercrossing.co.uk

or call 01322 280200

You can also write to:
Le Crossing Company Limited
Crossing Offices
South Orbital Way
Dartford
Kent
DA1 5PR

0830am -17.00pm Monday to Friday

For information on the Road Network call the Highways Agency on:

08457 50 40 30
8am-8pm Monday to Friday,
9am-5pm at weekends and on all Bank Holidays

or email: ha_info@highways.gsi.gov.uk

Mick F wrote:Gordon Bennet! It's HEAVING down now!

(Who was Gordon Bennet, by the way?)

SEMANTIC ENIGMAS

Who is Gordon Bennett?

Emma, England
Theory: It is a b*stardization of taking the Lord's name in vain. Fact. Gordon Bennett was my history teacher at St Bons in East London. He will swear blind his name was Patrick, but the pupils he taught know better. (I can say this without fear becuase I am as tall as he is and no longer frightened of him!)

Will, Cradle of Hades UK
Gordon Bennett was the man who charged Stanley with locating Dr.Livingstone in deepest Africa. Hence the exclamation when you are faced with a ridiculous task.

Tom, London
There were two of them, father and son, both editors of the New York Herald, and both publicity seekers and sponsors of various major events. Try this URL http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0807036.html

Joe S, London UK
James Gordon Bennett Jr. was the flamboyant owner and publisher of the New York Herald from 1868 to 1918 (having succeeded his father, the paper's founder) and was himself a founder of the Associated Press news service. He, or his newspaper, sponsored the first airplane race (called the Gordon Bennett and won by Glenn Curtis in 1909); the balloon race now known as the Coupe Aeronautique Gordon Bennett, or Gordon Bennet Cup; and yacht, steam yacht, pugilist, and auto competitions, each with a Gordon Bennet Cup. He also sent Stanley to Africa in search of Livingston, and financed the ill-fated Jeannette expedition to the Arctic. He died in 1918; a vestige of the paper still survives in the International Herald Tribune.

William Dunlap, Hamden, Connecticut USA
I don't know if he was the original Gordon Bennet, but a Gordon Bennet was one of the first riders in the Isle of Man TT motorcycle races back in the early years of the 20th century. Perhaps his performance was such that his name became adopted as an expression of amazement?

Michael Fehle, New York, NY USA
I believe the expression derives from James Gordon Bennett 1841-1918. Editor of the New York Herald, financed Stanley's expedition to find Livingston and was infamously horsewhipped on the steps of a club in New York. Features in 1876 by Gore Vidal. Alternatively it could come from his father (same name). I've no recollection of the incident which prompted the use of his name in the current parlance

sue denim, hemel hempstead
The Teem "Gordon Bennett" refers to one of the earliest Automobile races, The Gordon Bennett Cup. Presumably the saying was started by amazed spectator wowed by cars going 30mph!

Tony Greenfield, Brighton UK
He is or was up until a few years ago the Vicar at St Margarets Church, Station Road , Edgware, Middx.

peter spratley, Nash Mills Herts
The expression "Gordon Bennet" is thought to be a bastardisation of the words "God in Heaven", used as a blasphemy.

Dr Robert Kidd, Sydney Australia
An Aussie General in WWII who ecaped the fall of Singapore and the fate of the men under his command.

Martin Johnson, Melbourne, Australia
In the story After The Race from Dubliners by James Joyce the protagonists are competing for the Gordon Bennett Cup.

Stephen Dedalus, Paisley Scotland
"Gordon Bennett" is a one James Gordon Bennett, as noted already an American newspaper magnate. However, according to Bill Bryson, the root of his name as a saying derived from his habit of pulling tablecloths from all the tables in a restaurant, and in the process splattering astonished diners-hence his name became uttered by those expressing suprise and astonishment.

Scott Tweddle, Glasgow Scotland
The expression does derive from James Gordon Bennet Jnr. I presume it was adopted as an oath because it is an obvious euphemism for 'god'.

russell turner, norwich UK
Gordon Bennett is, in fact, a prolific yet little known biscuit manufacturer from Pontefract. Born 1878, he was often confused with the newspaper mogul James Gordon Bennett, who is wrongly associated with the phrase "Gordon Bennett!" The reason the phrase actually exists is because Biscuit Bennett (as he was also known) used to cycle the streets of Pontefract shouting his own name and brand to advertise his biscuits.

J Taylor, Beverley UK
Gordon Bennet was, for a brief and not too successful period a couple of years ago, Manager of Aberdeen Football Club - to our shame.

Angela Beagrie, Tweedbank Scotland
I'd heard from a man down the pub, or other such reliable source, that one Gordon Bennett had predicted the day of his own death, and in fact died on that very day. Hence the exclamation regarding something incredible.

Phil, London
He was an American newspaper baron. He would announce his arrival by yanking table cloths from passing tables and gave money to compensate his victims for lost meals and spattered attire. Now world famous.

Ufuk Ali, Dudley, England
Gordon Bennett, Was a carpenter from Saffron Walden Essex. For many years he lived at 15 Gold Street. As a boy his superb hand and eye skills were talked about in Saffron Walden and the local villages. He could plane a board of seasoned oak to an accuracy of 1/100 of a mm. Only by using hand tools! He made clock from oak and elm and only the spring an a few bearings were made of metal.He passed away in 1988 and was buried in a mahogany coffin he had made himself.

Len Borrow, Melbourne, Australia

Bad Mechanics and Poor Maintenances of Cycles

I have been appalled by the state of some of the cycles brought to children cyclist training,

For example:

Pedals put on the wrong way round, done by a bike shop.

Front V brakes cables twisted around steering column, you need to disconnect the cable to permits correct function.

Handlebars bar twisted 360 deg which cause the cable to be twist around the steering column.

Comment on your experience welcomed.

What was the location of this training? I take children on the road in central London, with instructor at the front and one at the rear, who come forward at junctions to keep the junctions open. This is called snaking.

You know two weeks ago local cycling proficiency trainers were requiring kids on seeing a car to dismount and pull their bikes onto the kerb, thats was cycling proficiency meant locally.

Please could you send more details of this course, It may break the guildelines for the promotion of cyclist training

meic wrote:My son is going on cub camp. To take part in the cycling activity you must wear a helmet. To pass the cyclists badge you must OWN a helmet but can borrow a bike and you do not actually have to ride it.
The council is about to run the Road Safety Course in the school but you can not attend it without a helmet also you are thrown off if your bike is not to regulations. The regs include that you must not have flashing lights, your seat must be at the same height as your bars, you must have no more than 2cm play in your chain, tyres can not be worn and many more.
I guess they dont want to waste time teaching road safety to the kids who would really benefit from it.