Cycling UK Forum

Hi Brucey,

Many thanks for your message!

I backed off the cable adjuster and also loosened off the pinch bolt on the brake cable and the rotor was still rubbing on the new disc brake pad.

Therefore I took the wheel out and loosed the bolts on the caliper and pushed it outwards as far as it would go. To be honest it was already almost as far over as it would go and so I wasn't able to gain much extra room. But I did get the caliper out a tiny fraction which has helped. Having reinstalled the wheel I still haven't really got much of a gap between the rotor and the disc brake pad but the wheel is moving more freely than it was and given that the caliper is pushed out as far as it will go I think that this is a good as it will get.

Therefore I then adjusted the inner brake pad and tighten the brake cable back up and took it for a test run and it all seems to be working alright. I did the repeated braking to bed in (or is it burnish) the new pads.

Fingers crossed it's all good from here and back to commuting duties for this bike.

Many thanks for all of your help which has been invaluable!

Cheers,

John

Hi Brucey,

Many thanks for your message above and given that I'd fitted the new cable and wasn't happy with the braking performance I am now fitting the new pads that I bought. As I mentioned I wanted to do the jobs of changing the cable and changing the pads separate & in isolation from one another just to see what difference each stage made.

Also given that this bike is an all year around all weathers commuter bike it's most likely that the pads are covered in all sorts of road grime and contamination. I appreciate that I could perhaps clean up the old pads but I've absolutely no idea whether they are organic or sintered and because in the past I've always asked LBS to check the brakes and replace parts when/where necessary but I've not been in control of what has been fitted. Therefore given the wear on the existing pads it seems to make perfect logical sense to now fit the new pads and hopefully this will improve the braking.

Anyway I've fitted the new sintered pads this afternoon and I've refitted the rear wheel. At this stage I've not adjusted the inner pad yet because I understand it you want to adjust the outer pad first because that's the one that doesn't move and is static once the caliper is fixed in place.

But I've got a bit stuck at the moment and I think that I might know what to do next but I just wanted to ask if I'm thinking along the right track.

Basically the outer pad is touching the disc rotor and rubbing as the wheel rotates and I can't see any gap whatsoever between the pad and the rotor. Am I right in thinking that the only way to address this is to change the position of the caliper by loosening the bolts holding the caliper in place and then moving the whole caliper outwards to create a gap in-between the outer pad and the rotor before tightening it back up again? Then you move onto adjusting the inner pad?

If I'm thinking along the right lines of my next steps to take can I ask a question about how to do this.

In order to move the caliper do I need to firstly need to undo the brake cable so that all of the tension is taken out of the cable and it's just completely loose? If I didn't have to take this step that would be good because I'd previously got the cable just where I wanted it secured and the lever pull feeling alright. But if I have to loosen off the brake cable in order to do the job properly then that's what I'll do because I want to get the job done right.

Also just out of interest the original disc brake rotors and hubs, front & rear, were both 6 bolt disc and that is still the case with the rear which has a 160mm Hayes disc rotor fitted (he rotor has Y13 and the letter E written on it) however the front disc rotor on my bike is now a Shimano centrelock disc rotor which was fitted after I got the front hub changed to a Shimano dynohub.

Thanks again for any help & advice to help guide me through this and get this job finished off and the bike back on the road which I can't wait for!

John

Hi LinusR and Brucey,

Thanks for your messages which is much appreciated!

So far I've taken the old brake cable off. It wasn't horrendously corroded or anything like that and it was in better condition than the gear shift cable that I recently took off and replaced on my bike because that was showing very obvious signs of corrosion.

I've now fitted the new cable and the braking motion is definitely smoother than it was before and so I'm pleased with that. At this stage I've actually used the old pads just for now. The reason that I did this is because I wanted to see what impact each individual change was going to make. I won't leave it too long though and the next time I'm giving it a good clean I'll change the pads as well.

Having put the pads back in and with the new brake cable I took it for a bit of a test run. Firstly I'd say that whilst on the work stand I definitely noticed the brake cable moving more smoothly. This has led to improved braking but it's not a night and day like change with a massive improvement. Therefore I'm keen to also see what change the new pads will make when I install them and have the benefit of both the new cable and the new pads.

When going for a test run checking the brakes I did wonder whether I'm being slightly unfair on the braking performance expecting too much in comparison to other brakes. The reason for this is I'm fortunate enough to have two bikes and the one that I use in the summer (plus some of spring & autumn) is a 2016 Kona Roadhouse and that has Shimano RS505 Hydraulic disc brakes and they definitely feel better than the Hayes CX Expert mechanical disc brakes on the Genesis Day One. But that is probably an unfair comparison because I'm not comparing apples with apples by trying to compare hydraulic to mechanical disc brakes.

Therefore just as the only other comparison/ reference point I have I also took my wifes sit up & beg step through frame bike out for a quick spin. That bike has calliper pull brakes and I'd say that the Hayes CX Expert mechanical disc brakes felt better than the calliper pull brakes on my wifes bike.

In the past I've always wondered if my Day One would have better braking with a change to say the TRP Hylex hydraulic disc brakes ( https://www.trpcycling.com/product/hylex-rs-post-mount/ ) but that would be an expensive change and not likely one that I can actually justify cost wise.

Once again thanks for all of the help, advice and support which has been invaluable whilst I've been tackling this job on my bike for the first time.

Thanks,

John

Hi again,

Actually don't worry about the post asking whether or not I need to remove the brake lever from the handlebar in order to replace the cable.

I've just found the following info in the link below and so the way I'm reading it I can replace the cable with the lever left on the bar where it is.

https://www.tektro.com/upload/Product/F_20150915101997SS8z8t.PDF

Thanks,

John

Hi Squeaker,

Thanks for your message and advice about the pads.

At the moment I'm just trying to replace the cable and can I ask for any advice about the next step to take because I've got stuck.

I've rolled back the rubber hood on the brake lever and I've unwound the bar tape to the point at which the brake lever is secured to the bar. This shows that the brake cable outer then goes into the plastic cashing of the brake lever.

In order to carry on with this job do I need to completely take the brake lever off the handlebar or can I leave the brake lever in place and somehow both remove the old brake cable inner & outer before installing the new brake inner & outer cables?

I've tried to attach photos below to show where the outer cable goes inside the brake lever. According to the original specs of the bike the levers are Tektro RL-340.

Thanks to all for any thoughts & advice on where I go next from here!

John

Hi again,

Following on from the above my plan is the replace the brake cable but I'm wondering whether or not to replace the brake pads at the same time or to keep using the current ones for a bit longer? I have ordered new pads which have arrived but I've just taken the old ones out and I wonder whether or not they need replacing yet?

My apologies for having to ask the question but I've never replaced the brake pads, or the brake cables for that matter before, because in the past this would always have been a job I would have asked a LBS to check and replace if necessary when doing a bike service. However now that I'm trying to do more things myself I'm just not sure whether or not the pads need replacing yet.

I've tried to take a photo of a current pad (the two current pads have almost identical wear) next to one of the new pads. However due to a combination of my lack of photography skills, the camera itself and it's ability to macro focus or the fact that the old pad is a bit dirty the photo is pretty much near impossible to see much detail on.

Anyway on the brand new pad the pad itself is clearly thicker than the backing plate.

On the old/current pad I would say that it's an even thickness all over and the thickness of the pad is (from looking at it with the naked eye) just about exactly the same thickness as the backing plate itself.

Therefore I don't know whether or not the pad has reached a point whereby it needs to be replaced now or whether there is more life left in it yet and I can reinstall the pad in the caliper?

Thanks very much for any thoughts and advice on this question!

John

Hi Brucey & Squeker,

Thanks for your messages above and I'll make sure that I don't take all of the slack out of the chain.

Also just following on from Brucey's messages above with photos of the various Genesis Day One rear brake/mountings I thought that I'd add to it with my 2014 Day One Alfine 8 model. Although please accept my apologies because the photos are nowhere near as good as the ones in Brucey's post and due to my rear rack being in the way the photo from the non-drive side isn't great I'm afraid.

Thanks,

John

Hi Brucey,

Many thanks for the advice and links which are much appreciated!

I've ordered myself the brake pads today and so hopefully they arrive soon.

Thank you,

John

Oh and further to the above just in case it is of relevance to know the caliper is mounted on the seat stay of the bike.

Thanks again for any help & advice!

John

Hi All,

I have just carried out some maintenance on my bike, a 2014 Genesis Day One Alfine 8, and having put it back together and taken it for a quick spin tonight I'm not overly happy with the performance of the rear disc brake.

I wonder if someone could offer me some pointers with where to start on checking through things to work through addressing any problems plus I also wondered if something that I have done when putting the bike together has had an impact.

Now it's a bike with a Shimano Alfine 8 IGH and it has horizontal rear dropouts. When putting things back together I thought that the chain looked a bit slack, perhaps due to chain stretch over time, and so in order to tension the chain I pulled the wheel back in the horizontal rear dropouts so that the chain is taught. On the subject of the chain I do get in changed once per year by the LBS, if not sometimes more regularly than bang on 12 months. Anyway I just wondered if the result of pulling the wheel back in the dropouts could change the position in which the disc rotor sits in the caliper and therefore where the pads grip the rotor possibly causing issues? If this is not a factor then I'll treat this is a red herring and concentrate on other things.

I also noted that the rotor on the rear brake seems to flex more when the brake is applied when compared the front disc rotor and I wonder if this indicates an issue related to the positioning on the rear wheel and subsequently the rotor in relation to the caliper.

The brakes on the bike are cable operated Hayes CX Expert post mount mechanical disc brakes with 160mm rotors. Prior to taking the bike apart working on the IGH hub issue I wouldn't have said that I had a big issue with the brakes. The last time that I'd taken the bike to a LBS I had asked them to have a look at the brakes including pads and rotors to check & advise if anything needed replacing and I was told that they didn't

However now that I don't think that the braking performance is as good as it could be I need to work through some steps to check things and then address them if any issues present themselves.

Now I've never changed the pads on the bike before because I've always asked a LBS to do it but are there general easy to follow steps to follow through for all mechanical disc brakes are all models of brake so specific that they all have their own ways of getting into them and getting the pads out of the calipers to check them? I did take a look at the calipers one time when I had the wheel out and on quick glances I couldn't see an immediate way to get the pads out without knowing what you're doing & what steps to take but at the time I was tackling another job and so I didn't focus on it.

Having found the post/thread below on the topic of adjusting rear brakes I appreciate that the cable may well be the guilty party in this. However is that the best place to start to rule in or out various possible issues?

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=122688

However I don't know whether I'm best to firstly replace the pads and then see how I go and if the braking performance doesn't improve then move onto replacing the brake cables or is there a better order to do this in or other diagnosis steps that I have missed that I should also try in a particular order?

Also am I right in thinking that pads are quite specific to each brake type? If so do I need to do a search on the internet for specifically "Hayes CX Expert replacement disc pads" or are things a bit more generic than that?

Thanks to everyone for any thoughts and tips!

John

Hi Brucey,

Many thanks because further to the below I managed to get the pinch bolt in the the slot on the cassette joint so cheers for the advice.

After that thought I ran out of time last weekend and this weekend wasn't much better because my wife has been away so I've had the kids which means not much time to work on the bike. However after my wife got back late this afternoon I've had a chance to try and put the finishing touches to things after the IGH hub maintenance.

Having put things back together I was able to take it for a quick test ride just around the block and I'm pleased to report (and slightly amazed given my technical ineptitude) that the Shimano Alfine 8 IGH changes gear! I so happy about this that I could jump up & down for joy. I'm also really pleased to be back on this bike now that it's dark because it's equipped with dynamo lights which I much prefer compared to my other bike which only has battery lights.

I'm still going to reserve judgement about the gear changing over the longer term because I've not used the bike over the commuting distance yet. Also in the past I've had different LBS get the Alfine IGH shifting absolutely fine only for shifting problems to return after a month or so and therefore I'll see how things go over the longer term.

However in the meantime many thanks to Brucey and everybody else who has contributed above with advice, help & ideas to help me through the process of servicing my hub and changing the gear cable because your advice has been invaluable particularly because I'm useless when it comes to even the most basic technical jobs.

Thank you!

John

Hi again,

Following the above I meant to include a couple of links about the Fairlight Faran as I remember this catching my attention because prior to this I'd never seen a bike towing a surfboard before & not that any of us are likely to do this but if that doesn't show what a bike is capable of then I don't know what does.

https://www.pannier.cc/journal/beyond-the-north-wind-tour-headwindhaters-film-bikesurfing/

Although I completely appreciate that this isn't exactly real world everyday stuff that any of us are likely to replicate and perhaps isn't the best example of what the bike would be like loaded up with more standard camping stuff etc.

Other links in respect of the Faran.

http://www.cyclist.co.uk/reviews/2117/fairlight-faran-review

http://www.headsetpress.co.uk/fairlight-cycles-faran/


Also I'm not sure where you are in the country you are but if you could possibly get to Spa Cycles in Harrogate it would probably be well worth your time paying them a visit to chat to them about your requirements, bikes that they'd recommend and also getting a chance to try their bikes.

Good luck with your bike hunting and with finding the right bike for you.

John

Hi LittleGreyCat,

If you'd have asked for a recommendation of touring bikes without suggesting any bikes at all I would have definitely suggested considering the Spa and Surly bikes so I think that you're already well on the right track. Plus there's also already loads of good advice on this topic and the bikes above.

I'd echo some of the thoughts above by saying that ideally take a test ride on your shortlisted bikes and see what you think of them in real world conditions to help make your mind up.

One thing I wasn’t sure about was how much stuff you’re planning on taking when touring because this may help shape some of the decision making process accordingly the load carrying ability/suitability of some of the bikes and the chainsets (doubles vs triples) and gear ratios that the bikes have to help shape what is right for you according to your intended uses and where you’ll be riding.

One reason for posting this was just because you mentioned that you have 4 bikes on your shortlist so far. It may well be that you don’t need to expand this shortlist at all because the right bike for you is already one of these four. However if you really wanted some other options to consider, and maybe even just to confirm that the original 4 are the best options for you here’s a couple of alternatives.

One of the Kona Sutra bikes:-
http://www.konaworld.com/platform_sutra.cfm

One of the bikes made by The Light Blue:-
https://www.thelightblue.co.uk/Sport/complete-bikes

Or the Fairlight Cycles Faran.
https://fairlightcycles.com/faran

One of the things that I like about Fairlight is that they offer both regular and tall versions of their frames and so it’s more likely that you’ll be able to get a frame that fits you according to your body type and riding style. Perhaps because of my background having had more flat bar bikes than drop bars, maybe because I'm not that flexible or perhaps just due to my body type/shape I like quite an upright position compared to be long and strung out with a low down slammed stem. If you’re interested you can find out more about this here.

https://vimeo.com/180866780

Also if you don't already have the benefit of bike fit data for you don't have to be an expert in order to figure out which frame size and version (regular or tall) is correct for you because all you do is select the model of bike that you want from the Fairlight website and then you can enter both your height and inside leg measurement and it will recommend which frame is best for you including reference to riding style

The only problem if you like the Faran is how quickly you want one because I'm not sure if they'll have your frame size left because they've said on their instagram page that they only have certain size frames left because they're planning an updated version for release.

https://www.instagram.com/fairlightcycles/

Good luck finding the right bike for you.

John

Hi Brucey,

Many thanks for your extra message and I'll follow this and fingers crossed it all works as planned!

However I've just hit a snag because I can't get the pinch bolt into the gap in the cassette joint housing/pulley.

I wondered if removing the pinch bolt / cable fixing nut and threading the cable through the other way might help or if it's irrelevant which way the nut is threaded onto the cable?

I was a bit reluctant to just try this because I've already set the distance between the nut and the end of the cable ferrule end (or as best I can without the tool to give compete accuracy). Therefore if it doesn't make a difference at all I won't do it so as not to have to set the distance again. However if it could help I'll give it a try.

If it doesn't make difference I'll just keep fiddling with it to see if I can get the bolt to fit into the gap.

Thanks again for all of your help and I'm sorry for being useless at this!

John

Hi Brucey,

Thanks very much and hopefully I'm on the right track!

Regarding having forgotten what gear the IGH was in before I took things apart is this an important factor now that I'm putting it all back together such as for example in relation to where the bar end shifter is?

Thanks very much for any thoughts!

John